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Debates Forum

  1. 30 Jan '11 19:10
    Title explains all.
  2. 30 Jan '11 19:18
    Originally posted by Gaigoon
    Title explains all.
    seems like this is more appropriate to the spirituality forum.
  3. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    30 Jan '11 21:39
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    seems like this is more appropriate to the spirituality forum.
    Surely that depends if it's real or coincidential?
  4. 30 Jan '11 22:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Gaigoon
    Title explains all.
    For everything there is a reason. It's just a matter of understanding the reason. For those who don't or do not expect a certain outcome, it can be classified a miracle or coincidence.
  5. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    30 Jan '11 23:09
    Originally posted by Gaigoon
    Title explains all.
    A miracle is presumably an event for which not only there is no scientific explanation (not enough - too many gaps in our knowledge as yet) but also that clearly flies in the face of what science predicts and can account for. It might enhance the claim if there was a contrary prediction within a religious context which was proven positive in this case. Perhaps if the Sun stood still in the sky for twenty four hours that might be an example, though maybe not in the Arctic Circle so much as over the Mediterranean.

    In cosmology, one argument against Creationism of the literal variety is that there ought to be some event in the history of the cosmos which conflicts with science and that there is none that can be clearly demonstrated as yet. For this reason, Stephen Hawkings and others like to joke that they have encountered another problem which seems impossible to explain and might turn out to be that missing miracle - but each time it turns out that there is an explanation after all, no miracle, no need for (that version of) God. Of course where religion does not rely on the literal truth of the Bible, and even for Christians that has nearly always been the case, this type of debate can soon become fatuous. It is a sort of private argument.
  6. 30 Jan '11 23:24
    Originally posted by Gaigoon
    Title explains all.
    "MIRACLE, n. An act or event out of the order of nature and unaccountable, as beating a normal hand of four kings and an ace with four aces and a king." -- Bierce
  7. 31 Jan '11 00:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    A miracle is presumably an event for which not only there is no scientific explanation (not enough - too many gaps in our knowledge as yet) but also that clearly flies in the face of what science predicts and can account for. It might enhance the claim if there was a contrary prediction within a religious context which was proven positive in this case. Perh ...[text shortened]... ys been the case, this type of debate can soon become fatuous. It is a sort of private argument.
    No miracle? Where did matter come from? Where did life come from? Has science been able to reproduce or witness the formation of either? If it has, then the scientific method could be used to splain them away. If not, then they are events in history that conflict with what science knows to be true.
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    31 Jan '11 10:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    No miracle? Where did matter come from? Where did life come from? Has science been able to reproduce or witness the formation of either? If it has, then the scientific method could be used to splain them away. If not, then they are events in history that conflict with what science knows to be true.
    Get an education.
  9. 31 Jan '11 10:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    No miracle? Where did matter come from? Where did life come from? Has science been able to reproduce or witness the formation of either? If it has, then the scientific method could be used to splain them away. If not, then they are events in history that conflict with what science knows to be true.
    Perhaps you can explain baryogenesis, whodey.
  10. 31 Jan '11 13:24
    I saw an interesting show on National Geographic about people who survived terrible accidents. One of them was a window washer in NYC. His platform fell 47 stories and he survived. They were able to reconstruct it and determine how he may have survived such a fall. They went on to say this wasn't a miracle because they could explain how he was saved. To me, being able to explain the mechanics doesn't mean it isn't a miracle.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/nyregion/12fall.html
  11. 31 Jan '11 13:39
    Miracles is purely a religious phenomenon. It is something happening totally outside any explanation of science.
    Miracles is not only low probability to happen. It's zero probability, and yet it happens. Then it is a miracle.

    A friend of mine is called Jesus. He lived by his mother 'til he was 32 years of age. And if he once even made his own bed, it was a miracle.
  12. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    31 Jan '11 14:00
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Perhaps you can explain baryogenesis, whodey.
    .....is this another crack at Obama's origins???
  13. 31 Jan '11 23:08
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I saw an interesting show on National Geographic about people who survived terrible accidents. One of them was a window washer in NYC. His platform fell 47 stories and he survived. They were able to reconstruct it and determine how he may have survived such a fall. They went on to say this wasn't a miracle because they could explain how he was saved. To ...[text shortened]... s doesn't mean it isn't a miracle.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/nyregion/12fall.html
    But then, what *does* mean something is a miracle, such that we can tell a miracle from a non-miracle? Maybe everything is a miracle, including that when a dog poops, it doesn't fall up. Doesn't that take some of the coolness off of the concept of miracles?
  14. 01 Feb '11 01:30
    Originally posted by JS357
    But then, what *does* mean something is a miracle, such that we can tell a miracle from a non-miracle? Maybe everything is a miracle, including that when a dog poops, it doesn't fall up. Doesn't that take some of the coolness off of the concept of miracles?
    One foot to the left or right, according to the program I watched, and that window washer gets crushed up like a tin can. We're talking about one step. I don't want to get into a discussion about probablility after the fact, but it's pretty freaking amazing that he just happened to be standing in the exact right spot to come through it alive. If you don't believe in miracles there's nothing I'm going to say to convince you.

    For people who do believe it isn't hard to see them everywhere. The fact that your dog is alive to take a poop in a universe where life seems to be extrememly rare is a miracle in and of itself. Whether you believe god created the universe or not, that dog is unique. That's the only time in 14 billion years that dog has produced that exact poop and it won't ever be produced again. Kinda makes you want to save it all up like a precious art work, doesn't it.
  15. 01 Feb '11 05:36
    Originally posted by dryhump
    One foot to the left or right, according to the program I watched, and that window washer gets crushed up like a tin can. We're talking about one step. I don't want to get into a discussion about probablility after the fact, but it's pretty freaking amazing that he just happened to be standing in the exact right spot to come through it alive. If you don't ...[text shortened]... d again. Kinda makes you want to save it all up like a precious art work, doesn't it.
    The dog that I have taking a poop would indeed be a miracle.