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29 Jan 15
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The charges for the following reported crime if proven could result in state prison for 1 - 10 years. What do you think? Why?
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27402896/san-jose-jogger-killed-alleged-street-race-remembered
SAN JOSE -- Like she had all her life, Kiran Pabla spent her last moments doting on her family.
Right around noon Monday, the 24-year-old San Jose native was out on a jog and called her grandmother, who had been out of town the past couple of months visiting relatives in Bakersfield. Among those relatives was Pabla's aunt, Anu Mohan.
Seconds later, Pabla was dead at the hands of two drivers in a suspected street race on Yerba Buena Road whose cars barreled down the road, soon colliding and bouncing off a guardrail before careening right into the graduate of nearby Silver Creek High School, pinning her against a tree, according to police. Pabla was less than a mile from home.
"She just went for a jog," Mohan said.
Two San Jose men have been jailed in connection with the crash. Gabriel Becerra Esparza, 18, was driving the Nissan Altima that hit Pabla, and 23-year-old Manuel Anthony Maldonado-Avalos was driving the BMW sedan that he was allegedly racing, police said. Both were booked on suspicion of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence and reckless driving causing great bodily injury after police say they were traveling more than 70 mph.
...more at link
29 Jan 15
Originally posted by JS357Illegal street drag racing sounds to me like recklessness. As such, a death caused by such qualifies as classic involuntary manslaughter.
The charges for the following reported crime if proven could result in state prison for 1 - 10 years. What do you think? Why?
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27402896/san-jose-jogger-killed-alleged-street-race-remembered
SAN JOSE -- Like she had all her life, Kiran Pabla spent her last moments doting on her family.
Right around noon Monday, ...[text shortened]... ng great bodily injury after police say they were traveling more than 70 mph.
...more at link
Something like 7-10 years in prison sounds about tight.
29 Jan 15
2 edits
Originally posted by sh76Isn't performing a reckless act with the conscious disregard for the safety of others one of the elements of malice aforethought and therefore murder?
Illegal street drag racing sounds to me like recklessness. As such, a death caused by such qualifies as classic involuntary manslaughter.
Something like 7-10 years in prison sounds about tight.
29 Jan 15
Originally posted by JS357same penalty any vehicular manslaughter would get.
The charges for the following reported crime if proven could result in state prison for 1 - 10 years. What do you think? Why?
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27402896/san-jose-jogger-killed-alleged-street-race-remembered
SAN JOSE -- Like she had all her life, Kiran Pabla spent her last moments doting on her family.
Right around noon Monday, ...[text shortened]... ng great bodily injury after police say they were traveling more than 70 mph.
...more at link
why would it be any different?
29 Jan 15
Originally posted by FishHead111No; that's recklessness and is an element of manslaughter.
Isn't performing a reckless act with the conscious disregard for the safety of others one of the elements of malice aforethought and therefore murder?
You're thinking of "depraved indifference to human life" which is one of the ways in which "malice aforethought" can be achieved.
Drag racing, while reckless, doesn't rise to the level of depravity, IMO.
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29 Jan 15
Originally posted by sh76Yes.
Illegal street drag racing sounds to me like recklessness. As such, a death caused by such qualifies as classic involuntary manslaughter.
Something like 7-10 years in prison sounds about tight.
I should have reported that they were "booked on suspicion of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence and reckless driving causing great bodily injury..." and the police reported they were speeding in excess of 70 mph, which sounds reckless to me.
I suppose the statutes do not separate out "causing death" from "causing great bodily injury." Thus the longer prison term is fitting IMO, but the actual charges are TBD and may be plea bargained.
29 Jan 15
Originally posted by JS357The statutes do make a distinction. Recklessness causing injury is only reckless endangerment, while is a low level felony. Recklessness causing death is involuntary manslaughter, which is a mid-level felony.
Yes.
I should have reported that they were "booked on suspicion of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence and reckless driving causing great bodily injury..." and the police reported they were speeding in excess of 70 mph, which sounds reckless to me.
I suppose the statutes do not separate out "causing death" from "causing great bodily injury." Thu ...[text shortened]... the longer prison term is fitting IMO, but the actual charges are TBD and may be plea bargained.
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29 Jan 15
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Originally posted by ZahlanziThe specifics could affect plea bargaining and sentencing, IMO. The victim not being a participating spectator and her situation (as reported) may make the prosecution resistant to plea bargaining very far down, and the same factors could affect the sentence if found guilty.
same penalty any vehicular manslaughter would get.
why would it be any different?
But this is just my reaction about how a jury might look at it.
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29 Jan 15
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Originally posted by sh76Thanks for explaining the distinction.
The statutes do make a distinction. Recklessness causing injury is only reckless endangerment, while is a low level felony. Recklessness causing death is involuntary manslaughter, which is a mid-level felony.
29 Jan 15
Originally posted by Shallow BlueNot according to any case I've ever seen.
On a public road? Damn yes it does.
All cases I'm aware of wherein reckless driving (drunk, racing, speeding, etc.) caused death have been prosecuted under, at most, involuntary manslaughter statutes.
Depraved indifference murder is for actions like throwing a Molotov cocktail onto a crowded street (even without specific intent to kill). Reckless driving is recklessness, not malice aforethought.
29 Jan 15
Originally posted by sh76Point taken but I think drag racing on a public street might be taken as a depraved indifference to human life, if the right DA got hold of it.
No; that's recklessness and is an element of manslaughter.
You're thinking of "depraved indifference to human life" which is one of the ways in which "malice aforethought" can be achieved.
Drag racing, while reckless, doesn't rise to the level of depravity, IMO.
But then that's why we got lawyers.
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29 Jan 15
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Originally posted by Shallow Bluequote:
On a public road? Damn yes it does.
To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.
In one case, People v Register, 60 NY2d 273, 469 NYS2d 599 (1983),while exploring the meaning of "depraved indifference recklessness" the Court of Appeals ruled that intoxication is not a defense or excuse to "depraved mind murder," although it may be to intentional murder. Its analysis started with distinguishing reckless manslaughter from the "depraved indifference recklessness" necessary for murder:
"to bring defendant’s conduct within the murder statute, the People were required to establish also that defendant’s act was imminently dangerous and presented a very high risk of death to others and that it was committed under circumstances which evidenced a wanton indifference to human life or a depravity of mind. . . . . The crime differs from intentional murder in that it results not from a specific, conscious intent to cause death, but from an indifference to or disregard of the risks attending defendant’s conduct." 60 NY2d at 274
http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/depraved-indifference/
edit: from another source:
There have been two South Bay cases in recent years where street racers were prosecuted for a death: a San Jose case in 2009 where the two drivers were given maximum prison sentences, and a Santa Clara death in 2011 where the drivers got about a year in county jail. The difference came down to the judges' sense of the defendants' accountability and remorse.
end quote
