Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    01 Oct '15 15:372 edits
    Why is it that Obama allows:

    1. Putin to back Assad who is causing the mass immigration into Europe and the US

    2. Europe and the US are then taking in the refugees

    3. And lastly the international community is not forcing the Russians to take in these refugees that they are causing to flee Assad?

    Trump should be shouting from the loudest roof top that Putin should be taking in these refugees, or back out of Syria.

    What am I missing? It should be the world against Putin.
  2. Standard memberbill718
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    01 Oct '15 15:572 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that Obama allows:

    1. Putin to back Assad who is causing the mass immigration into Europe and the US

    2. Europe and the US are then taking in the refugees

    3. And lastly the international community is not forcing the Russians to take in these refugees that they are causing to flee Assad?

    Trump should be shouting from the loudest roof t ...[text shortened]... refugees, or back out of Syria.

    What am I missing? It should be the world against Putin.
    What are you missing?? Well try these 4 things:

    1. As I've said countless times, America does not have the resources to the police the entire planet. If Putin wants to waste his military resources keeping Assad in power and fighting ISIS, why should we care? America is still struggling to pay for 2 wars in the middle east.

    2. What is so very wrong with taking in refugees? Our nation is made up of people from all over the world that were oppressed at one time, and came to America for a better way of life (including your ancestors I suspect), so why do you have a problem with this?

    3. I don't see terrorist bombs going off all across Europe and America due to these refugees. They are not bothering anyone, so why bother them?

    4. We're not going to force Russia to take in refugees if they don't want to, and I'd like to remind you that slapping around Iraq is one thing, a military confrontation with Russia will be a VERY different matter!

    I can think of some other things you are missing too, but I have to get back to work. 😲
  3. Joined
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    01 Oct '15 16:041 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    What are you missing?? Well try these 4 things:

    1. As I've said countless times, America does not have the resources to the police the entire planet. If Putin wants to waste his military resources keeping Assad in power and fighting ISIS, why should we care? America is still struggling to pay for 2 wars in the middle east.

    2. What is so very wrong wit ...[text shortened]... ter!

    I can think of some other things you are missing too, but I have to get back to work. 😲
    Wut?

    So America can't afford to police the world but it can afford to take in millions of immigrants? Apparently the US is not the world policeman, they are the world nanny instead. LOL.

    That is incoherent.

    ISIS has already claimed that it has sent some refugees into these countries as terrorists. Incidentally, most of the refugees seem to be men ranging from the ages 18 to 30.

    Coincidence?

    So if you wish to further bankrupt Western countries and add more terrorists and bombs going off in these countries, by all means, continue the hope and change.
  4. Hy-Brasil
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    01 Oct '15 16:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that Obama allows:

    1. Putin to back Assad who is causing the mass immigration into Europe and the US

    2. Europe and the US are then taking in the refugees

    3. And lastly the international community is not forcing the Russians to take in these refugees that they are causing to flee Assad?

    Trump should be shouting from the loudest roof t ...[text shortened]... refugees, or back out of Syria.

    What am I missing? It should be the world against Putin.
    Why is it that Obama allows:... -whodey


    Because Obama is a incompetent fool who is in WAY over his head. The same goes for Kerry.
    Putin is laughing his a$$ off at these nimrods.
  5. Standard membershavixmir
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    01 Oct '15 16:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that Obama allows:

    1. Putin to back Assad who is causing the mass immigration into Europe and the US

    2. Europe and the US are then taking in the refugees

    3. And lastly the international community is not forcing the Russians to take in these refugees that they are causing to flee Assad?

    Trump should be shouting from the loudest roof t ...[text shortened]... refugees, or back out of Syria.

    What am I missing? It should be the world against Putin.
    Your first point is complete nonsense.
    Assad, Isis and every other fraction fighting there is causing refugees. It's got nothing to do with whom Putin is backing or not.
  6. Standard memberDeepThought
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    01 Oct '15 17:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that Obama allows:

    1. Putin to back Assad who is causing the mass immigration into Europe and the US

    2. Europe and the US are then taking in the refugees

    3. And lastly the international community is not forcing the Russians to take in these refugees that they are causing to flee Assad?

    Trump should be shouting from the loudest roof t ...[text shortened]... refugees, or back out of Syria.

    What am I missing? It should be the world against Putin.
    Reading your post I get the impression that you do not seem to regard other countries as having sovereignty. It is not up to your President to tell the Russians who to back. More to the point, although Assad should probably not be the president of Syria, the fact remains that he is the president of Syria. Which means that Putin is acting entirely within international law in intervening to protect his puppet. I'd imagine that Assad would rather NATO stayed out of it, so any action NATO takes in Syria is on very dicey ground.

    Basically there is nothing Obama can legally do about this. Sanctions were ineffective against Putin's intervention in the Crimea so I don't see that there is much reason to think they'll have any effect on him in this.

    The real worry for the West is that Putin's forces will target all rebels in Syria and not just ISIL. Putin's objective is to stabilize his puppet, he doesn't care if ISIL survives in Iraq. Frankly NATO can't really alter that so if they want to preserve an alternative to ISIL other than Assad they need to persuade Putin that Russia will maintain her influence over Syria in a post Assad regime. In the meantime they need to defeat ISIL in Iraq before the Russians do so in Syria, whoever completes their military operation first is in a position to influence the fate of Syria.
  7. Zugzwang
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    01 Oct '15 20:08
    Originally posted by DeepThought to Whodey
    Reading your post I get the impression that you do not seem to regard other countries as having sovereignty. It is not up to your President to tell the Russians who to back. More to the point, although Assad should probably not be the president of Syria, the fact remains that he is the president of Syria. Which means that Putin is acting ent ...[text shortened]... hoever completes their military operation first is in a position to influence the fate of Syria.
    NATO"s 'humanitarian' intervention has been used as a disingenuous pretext to overthrow
    internationally recognized governments, such Gaddafi's regime in Libya, which remains
    in a state of civil war. Putin knows that he was extremely naive in trusting Western promises
    that NATO would not attempt to overthrow Gaddafi and set up its own puppet regime in
    Libya, so he does not intend to allow something similar to happen to Assad in Syria.
  8. Joined
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    01 Oct '15 20:431 edit
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Your first point is complete nonsense.
    Assad, Isis and every other fraction fighting there is causing refugees. It's got nothing to do with whom Putin is backing or not.
    The crisis is being presented as one driven by Syria and the Assad regime.

    But as you point out, ISIS is also to blame.

    So what to do? The proposition is that the US and Europe cannot afford to police the world, but apparently they can house them, feed them, and give them free medical for the rest of their lives and the lives of their children cause it's far cheaper?
  9. Joined
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    01 Oct '15 21:081 edit
    Granted, Putin and his Russia have their sovereignty just like we should all be free to do as we like. However, when our actions harm others, there should be consequences to those actions and those actions should be held in check until they stop hurting others.

    Is Putin and Assad apart of the world community? If not, then it is the world against Putin and Assad. If they are, then they should be apart of the solution to problems they both are causing.
  10. Joined
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    01 Oct '15 22:031 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    So what to do? The proposition is that the US and Europe cannot afford to police the world, but apparently they can house them, feed them, and give them free medical for the rest of their lives and the lives of their children cause it's far cheaper?
    If those refugees get jobs in Europe, they may end up paying through their taxes to house, feed and give free medical care to other European citizens.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    01 Oct '15 22:32
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why is it that Obama allows:

    1. Putin to back Assad who is causing the mass immigration into Europe and the US

    2. Europe and the US are then taking in the refugees

    3. And lastly the international community is not forcing the Russians to take in these refugees that they are causing to flee Assad?

    Trump should be shouting from the loudest roof t ...[text shortened]... refugees, or back out of Syria.

    What am I missing? It should be the world against Putin.
    In case you missed it, the US and other Western countries have been bombing in Syria for over a year now. The refugee problem exploded prior to the Russians militarily intervening but after those countries did.

    What exactly do you think the US can compel Russia to do? What measures are you prepared to endorse if the Russians won't do what you command them to?
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    01 Oct '15 22:34
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    If those refugees get jobs in Europe, they may end up paying through their taxes to house, feed and give free medical care to other European citizens.
    There seems to be quite a lot of unemployment in the EU. http://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

    Why would refugees have a better chance of securing employment in Europe then unemployed Europeans?
  13. Subscriberkmax87
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    01 Oct '15 22:50
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    In case you missed it, the US and other Western countries have been bombing in Syria for over a year now. The refugee problem exploded prior to the Russians militarily intervening but after those countries did.

    What exactly do you think the US can compel Russia to do? What measures are you prepared to endorse if the Russians won't do what you command them to?
    The assumption in Russia's entry into this zone is that it undermines US led efforts. But it also leaves ISIS stranded on the Eastern border leaving them at the mercy of a pincer attack by allied forces. This war will be the start of a new era of cooperation between Russia and the US, regardless of the histrionics displayed in the MSM by assorted chicken hawks.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    01 Oct '15 23:16
    Originally posted by kmax87
    The assumption in Russia's entry into this zone is that it undermines US led efforts. But it also leaves ISIS stranded on the Eastern border leaving them at the mercy of a pincer attack by allied forces. This war will be the start of a new era of cooperation between Russia and the US, regardless of the histrionics displayed in the MSM by assorted chicken hawks.
    I doubt it. The Russians are more interested in propping up Assad then fighting ISIS. There's a decent possibility of a de facto truce between those two allowing Assad and the Russians to go after other rebel groups to the discomfort of the US, the other Western powers, the Saudis, etc. etc. etc.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
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    01 Oct '15 23:20
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Why is it that Obama allows:... -whodey


    [b]Because Obama is a incompetent fool who is in WAY over his head. The same goes for Kerry.
    Putin is laughing his a$$ off at these nimrods.
    [/b]
    Ain't that the truth.
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