27 May 06
1 edit
I understand the makers of it might be wrong and cause children to be abused or whatever, fair enough, imprison them.
However as for the people who own download it and own it, why is it considerd wrong or more importantly warrants imprisionment?
1)They are not hurting anyone.
2)Surley its better they exorcise there lust over a computer rather than a actual child.
3)They might not nescceraly be phedophiles anyway. They might have it to add viarity to there collection or might just have it out of intrest.
4)Its there computer which they paid money for with money they earnt, why should the FBI have a say in what they can use it for.
28 May 06
Originally posted by Brother EdwinI guess for the simple fact it contibutes in the violation of a childs rights. If there wasn't a demand for it by users then there wouldn't be a market for it in which people could exploit young children.
I understand the makers of it might be wrong and cause children to be abused or whatever, fair enough, imprison them.
However as for the people who own download it and own it, why is it considerd wrong?
1)They are not hurting anyone.
2)Surley its better they exorcise there lust over a computer rather than a actual child.
3)They might no ...[text shortened]... paid money for with money they earnt, why should the FBI have a say in what they can use it for.
28 May 06
maybe because in child porn the rules are clear - the child is automatically being abused. In adult porn you can't tell instantly if abuse is invoolved or not. Anyway, teh FBI aren't going to know if you paid for the pics, thereby effectively paying for the child to be abused, or not.
A twist on this then - how about drawings depicting children naked/in sexual situations? I believe they are now banned in the US, but there has been no abuse involved. So where's the crime?
disclaimer: this is just a question on the viability of banning something that is distastful to most where no harm has been caused to anyone in its creation, not support for the 'art'
28 May 06
Originally posted by Brother EdwinIt is the people who buy child porn, or any porn, that create the profit that in turn creates the demand for even more child porn, and ever more extreme child porn.
I understand the makers of it might be wrong and cause children to be abused or whatever, fair enough, imprison them.
However as for the people who own download it and own it, why is it considerd wrong or more importantly warrants imprisionment?
1)They are not hurting anyone.
2)Surley its better they exorcise there lust over a computer rath ...[text shortened]... paid money for with money they earnt, why should the FBI have a say in what they can use it for.
Leaving religious views out of the equation, porn is an intrinsically bad enterprise and child porn is utterly despicable.
The very nature of porn means that people are objectified and treated as a means to an end, rather than as an end in itself. People are used and thrown away. It's a bad business. Unfortunately it's a very profitable business because of all those who are willing to pay money for it.
28 May 06
Originally posted by Delmerchilds should never be placed on porn industry, its a real menace what others are capable to do ( for money obviously ) to expose them on the web , and we must be strong against those deviated persons without any degree of morality ....
It is the people who buy child porn, or any porn, that create the profit that in turn creates the demand for even more child porn, and ever more extreme child porn.
Leaving religious views out of the equation, porn is an intrinsically bad enterprise and child porn is utterly despicable.
The very nature of porn means that people are objectified and treat ...[text shortened]... tely it's a very profitable business because of all those who are willing to pay money for it.
28 May 06
Originally posted by Brother EdwinIt is a proven fact (though don't force me to actually find a reference, hehe) that pornography has such an effect on the mind of the viewer that the viewer will try to re-enact those situations in real life. Sure, it is better that they only act on those urges in front of a computer, but more often than not, those involved in child molestation learned that behavior from child pornography.
I understand the makers of it might be wrong and cause children to be abused or whatever, fair enough, imprison them.
However as for the people who own download it and own it, why is it considerd wrong or more importantly warrants imprisionment?
1)They are not hurting anyone.
2)Surley its better they exorcise there lust over a computer rath ...[text shortened]... paid money for with money they earnt, why should the FBI have a say in what they can use it for.
28 May 06
Originally posted by Draxusprobably true. As with many vices (defined by potentially addictive) porn can pull you deeper and deeper. At first mild porn excites and gives you a major buzz. But after a while you become accustomed to it and it doesn't have the same effect, which can lead to you searching out harder stuff. When this stops having the desired effect you can be lead deeper and deeper until you are watching stuff that previously would have disgusted you. And when this wears off too where do you go - real life?
It is a proven fact (though don't force me to actually find a reference, hehe) that pornography has such an effect on the mind of the viewer that the viewer will try to re-enact those situations in real life. Sure, it is better that they only act on those urges in front of a computer, but more often than not, those involved in child molestation learned that behavior from child pornography.
I also believe the 'tolerance' can leach into real life. You get bored of images of naked women so look for hardcore porn. This stops having the same effect so you go more hardcore, and then into teh depraved stuff. But at the same time you aren't so inteerested in naked women in real life. Sex becomes boring as you've seen it a thousand times so you are pulled to want to get more kinky in real life too. And the further the porn has taken you the more your real sex life bores you driving you to deeper kinks. And if the porn has lead you to animals, sadism or kids...
I'm not saying that this is true for everyone or even for the majority, but I do believe that it is not an uncommon progression.
28 May 06
I've often thought about this actually. I suppose it's the whole chesnut of where there's demand for something, there will be supply. Here in Ireland, there has been a major sweep of people up on child porn charges recently; one was actually a judge. The irish police got their info from the FBI also, incidentially.
28 May 06
1 edit
Originally posted by DraxusWho where and when? What you stated in the first part of your statement is up to a psychologist's decision based on an individual case. Scientific data on the subject of pornography affecting the human mind is certainly sparse.
It is a proven fact (though don't force me to actually find a reference, hehe) that pornography has such an effect on the mind of the viewer that the viewer will try to re-enact those situations in real life. Sure, it is better that they only act on those urges in front of a computer, but more often than not, those involved in child molestation learned that behavior from child pornography.
And are you saying that before there was child pornography there were fewer child molesters than there are today? Maybe you should argue that with a person with a background in a psychological field. There are many who are debating this psychological aspest of this subject as we speak; many who have published articles on both sides.
Lets not get carried away and jump to conclusions with sayings like "oh yeah, like this is a proven fact...blah blah". I have to admit Ive seen to many intelligent threads around here littered with them.
28 May 06
Originally posted by belgianfreakThere is no hard scientific data that shows pornography has the capacity of being additive.
probably true. As with many vices (defined by potentially addictive) porn can pull you deeper and deeper. At first mild porn excites and gives you a major buzz. But after a while you become accustomed to it and it doesn't have the same effect, which can lead to you searching out harder stuff. When this stops having the desired effect you can be lead dee ...[text shortened]... veryone or even for the majority, but I do believe that it is not an uncommon progression.
28 May 06
2 edits
Originally posted by Brother EdwinChildporn is prohibited by law for very specific reasons. This is a fantasy that must not transcend into the real world simply because of the trauma that is most likely placed on the child. It's there to protect the children. The question is, does it really?
I understand the makers of it might be wrong and cause children to be abused or whatever, fair enough, imprison them.
However as for the people who own download it and own it, why is it considerd wrong or more importantly warrants imprisionment?
1)They are not hurting anyone.
2)Surley its better they exorcise there lust over a computer rath ...[text shortened]... paid money for with money they earnt, why should the FBI have a say in what they can use it for.
There are rape porn on the net as well (and we're not talking my kind of rape fantasies either). That could also be a problem.
But there are porn that's not all that bad, if still "deviant" in some people's eyes.
Someone has fantasies that involve the exploitation and degradation of another human being such that it doesn't fit well with the human rights concept (wether or not some would admit that human rights is a needed concept, it is one of the things we're basing the western world on). The person we're talking about can clearly separate those fantasies from real life. Should we forbid him/her from viewing material that depicts his/her fantasy even though noone was harmed in the making of the same?
Let me clarify. There are porn on the net (easily available) that depicts both rape and sex with minors (teenage sex as it were). Some of it has been recorded like any movie, by actors (where children has been played by adults with a pubescent appearance). There is nothing more wrong with such porn than there is with a movie depicting, and idolising a psychotic murderer. Very few people actually view a movie with sick murder plots and then decide to go out there and kill people. There's a big gap between the movie and the real world for most people. Then there are those movies recorded where the act is for real, and that's the kind we want removed.
The problem is, that to make the fantasy more arousing, everyone claim that their porn is the real thing and then in small text somewhere it is stated that noone was physicially or emotionally abused in the making of the movie. Every porndistributor does this whether or not the movie was recorded by willing actors or not.
"See these teenage girls get it up their xxx for the first time on camera!!!", and then in small text somewhere: "Noone has actually been coerced or forced to have sex in front of the camera". And this is printed even though the film clearly shows a girl being forced somehow (albeit not necessarily with physical force). And even in "nice" porn there are women and men forced into it sometimes.
This is a big problem, and it won't go away. People, a lot of people (men and women alike) loves porn (just look at the salesfigures of some of the bigger porn distributors). But the vast majority of us wants to be sure that noone is forced to act out our fantasies on the screen. Is that assurance going to come from a market that the majority condemns and wants to make hush-hush? Or is it better to talk about this openly (in front of children even)?
How is a child helped by having the truth held from it? There are still many children so naive that they just walk into traps and end up victims. How is a young person having dark fantasies helped by the rest of us pointing at him/her and claiming (s)he's a weirdo that should be locked up for life, or at the very least seek help? The answer to both questions is: They're not.
We cannot irradicate a phenomenon like porn, since most adults are interested in it. Since childporn is still a doable industry (or it wouldn't exist) it should be handled in the open to ensure that no real children are actually involved in the making of the material.
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There were judges here in Sweden a few years back, whom were exposed and convicted of buying sex (an illegal act here). And there was a female police student who sold sex on the side to make some extra money. She wasn't forced and openly admitted (after having been exposed in media) that she was very picky about her customers and that nothing violent actually took place. But doesn't these examples just say it all? The same people helping bring laws against prostitution (buying and selling sexual favours is illegal over here) and supposed to uphold those laws, were themselves buyers and sellers. How can that be? And those weren't lonely people either, but married with big families. How can anyone expect a business based on sex, which is such an integral part of most of us, to be suppressed by law restrictions when the very people upholding those laws are themselves consumers?
I say, childporn and any other porn should be ok if it's guaranteed that it was recorded using consenting adult actors. Because the problem won't go away. There are people, and there always has been people, with deviant fantasies and they won't go away because we tell them that they're sick. In fact, they will probably just keep doing it hidden from public view which really doesn't help anyone.
28 May 06
1 edit
Originally posted by belgianfreakI think this is only true for a minority of people. Most people still view basically the same kind of porn at forty as they did when around the twenties. Granted, the same movie is not very interesting to view again and again, but new recordings with basically the same kind of sex has you going again.
At first mild porn excites and gives you a major buzz. But after a while you become accustomed to it and it doesn't have the same effect, which can lead to you searching out harder stuff. When this stops having the desired effect you can be lead deeper and deeper until you are watching stuff that previously would have disgusted you. And when this wears off too where do you go - real life?
Only if you're addicted to porn (which is another problem entirely, and that too won't be helped by banning porn) will it become a problem like you suggest. A psychologically healthy person has periods where no porn is viewed at all. Then, on special ocassions 🙂 , a movie may be flipped into the DVD-player for that little extra.
I don't think it's unfair to compare this to the consumption of alcohol, for instance. Most of us only drink at special ocassions (parties and such). Some of us can't help it but drink almost constantly. Only those who can't keep from drinking need to get stronger and stronger brew (but not even that is true in a lot of instances).