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  1. Behind the scenes
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    27 Jan '18 18:54
    As many American Cities such as Detroit, Chicago and others struggle with high crime rates and violence, New York City stands as an example of how this big city has become a good model for others to follow. The big question is: Will they?

    https://www.salon.com/2011/11/19/what_really_cleaned_up_new_york/

    https://nypost.com/2016/11/14/why-crime-in-chicago-soars-while-new-york-is-safer-than-ever/

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-new-york-became-safe-full-story-13197.html
  2. Joined
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    27 Jan '18 21:56
    Originally posted by @mchill
    As many American Cities such as Detroit, Chicago and others struggle with high crime rates and violence, New York City stands as an example of how this big city has become a good model for others to follow. The big question is: Will they?

    https://www.salon.com/2011/11/19/what_really_cleaned_up_new_york/

    https://nypost.com/2016/11/14/why-crime-in-chicag ...[text shortened]... r-than-ever/

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-new-york-became-safe-full-story-13197.html
    Giuliani
  3. Standard memberHandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
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    28 Jan '18 01:10
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    Giuliani
    From the Salon link:

    In his fascinating new book, "The City that Became Safe," Franklin Zimring, a professor of law and chairman of the Criminal Justice Research Program at the University of California at Berkeley, looks at the real reasons behind that change -- and his conclusions might surprise you. Contrary to popular belief, Giuliani's "zero tolerance" bluster had little to do with it. Instead, it was a combination of strategic policing and harm reduction by the New York Police Department. Police targeted open-air drug markets, and went after guns, while leaving drug users largely alone. The implications of the strategy could make us revise not only the way we think about crime, but the way we think about our prison system and even human nature.
  4. Joined
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    28 Jan '18 01:361 edit
    Originally posted by @handyandy
    From the Salon link:

    In his fascinating new book, "The City that Became Safe," Franklin Zimring, a professor of law and chairman of the Criminal Justice Research Program at the University of California at Berkeley, looks at the real reasons behind that change -- and his conclusions might surprise you. Contrary to popular belief, Giuliani's "zero ...[text shortened]... e think about crime, but the way we think about our prison system and even human nature.
    Broken windows...not zero tolerance

    http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

    Giuliani was the mayor, he hired the police chief, they work together. twist it any way you want.
  5. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    28 Jan '18 02:37
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    Broken windows...not zero tolerance

    http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

    Giuliani was the mayor, he hired the police chief, they work together. twist it any way you want.
    Credit goes primarily to N.Y. Police Commissioner Bill Bratton, who Mayor Giuliani dumped in 1996.
    Apparently Giuliani believed Bratton was getting more credit than the mayor for the dramatic drop in crime.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/us/politics/12bratton.html
  6. Behind the scenes
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    28 Jan '18 08:26
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    Broken windows...not zero tolerance

    http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

    Giuliani was the mayor, he hired the police chief, they work together. twist it any way you want.
    Clearly, you've not bothered to read the links I posted
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    28 Jan '18 10:56
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Clearly, you've not bothered to read the links I posted
    You ask too much.
  8. Joined
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    28 Jan '18 14:54
    Originally posted by @handyandy
    Credit goes primarily to N.Y. Police Commissioner Bill Bratton, who Mayor Giuliani dumped in 1996.
    Apparently Giuliani believed Bratton was getting more credit than the mayor for the dramatic drop in crime.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/us/politics/12bratton.html
    Apparently you cant see that crime continued downward after the police chief left, you know, the one you gave the credit to.
  9. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    28 Jan '18 18:102 edits
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    Apparently you cant see that crime continued downward after the police chief left, you know, the one you gave credit to.
    And after the mayor left, you know, the one you gave credit to.
  10. Joined
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    28 Jan '18 18:371 edit
    Originally posted by @handyandy
    And after the mayor left, you know, the one you gave credit to.
    So you admit programs initiated under republican leadership are working today still.You just cant credit the right people.
  11. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    28 Jan '18 18:59
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    So you admit programs initiated under republican leadership are working today still.You just cant credit the right people.
    "The Right People"

    Sounds like a horror movie.
  12. Joined
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    28 Jan '18 19:05
    Originally posted by @handyandy
    "The Right People"

    Sounds like a horror movie.
    For you yes...you are stuck on >the wrong people<.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Jan '18 20:22
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    Broken windows...not zero tolerance

    http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

    Giuliani was the mayor, he hired the police chief, they work together. twist it any way you want.
    The expert you cited in another thread says the best way to reduce crime was to make sure more people have handguns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime

    I don't recall that being a part of the Guiliani supported program.
  14. Joined
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    28 Jan '18 20:42
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    The expert you cited in another thread says the best way to reduce crime was to make sure more people have handguns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime

    I don't recall that being a part of the Guiliani supported program.
    neither here nor there, pointless.
  15. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    28 Jan '18 23:25
    Originally posted by @mchill
    As many American Cities such as Detroit, Chicago and others struggle with high crime rates and violence, New York City stands as an example of how this big city has become a good model for others to follow. The big question is: Will they?

    https://www.salon.com/2011/11/19/what_really_cleaned_up_new_york/

    https://nypost.com/2016/11/14/why-crime-in-chicag ...[text shortened]... r-than-ever/

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-new-york-became-safe-full-story-13197.html
    I'm sure there are many reasons for NY's success in reducing crime, but Giuliani's tactics (the controversial ones, the noncontroversial ones, or both) were clearly a factor.

    Liberals bending over backwards to give Giuliani zero credit for the precipitous drop that happened under his watch remind me of sports fans who have it in for a player or coach and will give 12 reasons why every success of the player or team was really attributable to someone else or luck.
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