Since everybody LOVES to discuss religion...
Besides the usual rhetoric of "because there is no God.", are there any naysayers out there who would like to discuss why they feel religion as an organized body is, simply put, a crock of excrement? This discussion is not limited to discussing Christian faith, although I'm sure it will still be the main focus.
I, personally, think that any organized religion which uses guilt and fear as a tactical weapon and at the same time extols the concepts of love and mercy should be exposed for its hypocrisy and contradictory messages.
I believe that any organized religion which does not respect the concept of human equality is abhorent.
I believe any organized religion in which war and destruction is the prescribed method of dealing with inter-faith relations was created by man and used as a tool of domination.
I believe that any organized religion which does not concern itself with nature, women, animals, science, etc. equally was concocted in a Man's brain.
I guess Satanism is the only thing left that doesn't fit these molds.
Rege Satanas!
Darv
Originally posted by darvlayMy problem with Religion (Christianity/Baptist) started with people in positions of power in the church telling me that unless I accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Savior I was going to hell. Hell seemed kinda bad at the time. Especially to a little kid.
Since everybody LOVES to discuss religion...
Besides the usual rhetoric of "because there is no God.", are there any naysayers out there who would like to discuss why they feel religion as an organized body is, simply put, a crock of e ...[text shortened]... thing left that doesn't fit these molds.
Rege Satanas!
Darv
So no matter how nice you were, how charitable, no matter how well someone treated kids, animals, and little old ladies, if you didn't accept Jesus as the Son of God and the savior of the world, off to hell you went.
That bothers me still.
I think it's obvious if you look at the doctrine of ANY major religion today that women, poor people, or children didn't have anything to do with laying out the bueprints for it. Those groups don't fare well under the religious umbrella in terms of power. They may get some charity when they need it, but they never get control.
Old, rich, men, with a high status in society designed religions. The major ones anyway. That's why there are so many different kinds. If they didn't like the religions that were available they could just start their own. And place themselves in charge of course. 🙂
I've always had problems with any group that places loyalty or faith above logic. That's not progressive, that's regressive.
Originally posted by wibActually there are a few of us on the site that are trying to raise the consciousness of people of faith. Some of us walk a fine line in adhereing to a faith that does not violate our integrity or the values of others and also holding a light on what we find unacceptable and even illogical.
My problem with Religion (Christianity/Baptist) started with people in positions of power in the church telling me that unless I accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Savior I was going to hell. Hell seemed kinda bad at the time. Especially to a little kid.
So no matter how nice you were, how charitable, no matter how well someone treated kids, animals, a ...[text shortened]... es loyalty or faith above logic. That's not progressive, that's regressive.
You started your post by saying "my problem with religion (Christianity/Baptist) started with people in positions of power...." The history of early Christianity and early Baptists is not one of people in "positions of power." It was exactly the opposite. Incredible persecution and having to leave to find places where they could worship. Now witness what we have today with cozy political relationships, tax breaks and churches that have more square footage than shopping malls or in some cases are former malls.
I fully understand the cynicism that many have towards organized religion on the site. I would encourage you and others who feel this distrust to not lump us all together as "bad" people who want to coerce or take advantage of people of differing views. Some of us go about trying to make the world a better place quietly as an expression of faith. I happen to be the leader of the Apostles clan. I intentionally run this clan as a community building endeavor. Absolutely no religious criteria to be in it, though I might claim a "miracle from Jesus" if I can get back on page 1. 🙂
Originally posted by kirksey957Hi Kirksey,
Actually there are a few of us on the site that are trying to raise the consciousness of people of faith. Some of us walk a fine line in adhereing to a faith that does not violate our integrity or the values of others and also holding a ...[text shortened]... ght claim a "miracle from Jesus" if I can get back on page 1. 🙂
I didn't lump you all together as "bad people" And I want you to know I would never do that.
Most of my favorite memories from childhood involve the church and the many relationships and activities there. I KNOW organized religion can be a good thing. I experienced it. There's a lot I still miss from those days.
Fellowship is a powerful thing.
You brought up a good point in your post about how Christianity started with the persecuted, but now look what it has evolved into. That's really one of my main issues with it. There's too much power up for grabs now with religious leaders. Too much money. Too much control over the lives and decisions of others. All of that bothers me and frightens me. Look at what the Catholic leaders did when the pedophiles turned out to be right in their own backyard. That's just so sad. It's downright depressing to see those actions and the cover up that followed them.
All of that strikes at a the larger problems within all organized and powerful religions. I hope it gets sorted out, but in order for that to happen it requires a committment from all Christians. A committment for change. So far I haven't seen or heard of any such thing. The change in the churches that I've seen, no matter the denomination, seems to be headed in the wrong direction in my opinion.
And good luck on that Page 1 "miracle". 🙂 You know what the bible says in that regard though; The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Originally posted by kirksey957Uh... you're not actually a Reverend, are you?
Actually there are a few of us on the site that are trying to raise the consciousness of people of faith. Some of us walk a fine line in adhereing to a faith that does not violate our integrity or the values of others and also holding a light on what we find unacceptable and even illogical.
You started your post by saying "my problem with religion ...[text shortened]... teria to be in it, though I might claim a "miracle from Jesus" if I can get back on page 1. 🙂
Originally posted by kirksey957
I intentionally run this clan as a community building endeavor. Absolutely no religious criteria to be in it, though I might claim a "miracle from Jesus" if I can get back on page 1. 🙂
When someone promotes Satanism (PS: He is the enemy of God), the idea is not to join in his slaunder of other Christians on this site, or is it ?
Originally posted by wib"You know what the Bible says in that regard though...." I thought you were going to say that the last shall be first. 🙂
Hi Kirksey,
I didn't lump you all together as "bad people" And I want you to know I would never do that.
Most of my favorite memories from childhood involve the church and the many relationships and activities there. I KNOW organized religion can be a good thing. I experienced it. There's a lot I still miss from those days.
Fellowship is a ...[text shortened]... hat the bible says in that regard though; The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Originally posted by pcaspianWhat do these things have to do with Satanism? Have you ever witnessed a Satanist ritual in all its splendor? Or are you merely stereotyping my beliefs in accordance with your Promise Keeper's manual? Perhaps you should've approached those Satanists you came across in the hospital and asked them what their daily regiment was.
Ofcourse murder and beatiality, mutilation and torture is missing from your daily regiment...
Originally posted by darvlay
What do these things have to do with Satanism? Have you ever witnessed a Satanist ritual in all its splendor? Or are you merely stereotyping my beliefs in accordance with your Promise Keeper's manual? Perhaps you should've approached those Satanists you came across in the hospital and asked them what their daily regiment was.
A close friend of mine was involved in Satanism. Self mutilation, defeacating and using that feaces to write crudity on walls and yes, animal mutilations were a few of the less harsh stories. Ofcourse at the time I just figured he was a bit unusual, you know sticking pencils in his arms ect. After school, he managed to escape from that environment when the police arrested his 'leader'.
PS: In any church environment you are bound to come across atleast a few reformed satanists.
Originally posted by pcaspianNow having said this, exactly how can you associate me with this kind of behavior? Now when I think of Kansas I think of Auntie Em and Judy Garland in the Wizard of OZ. Thanks to you all that is changed now.
Originally posted by darvlay
[b]What do these things have to do with Satanism? Have you ever witnessed a Satanist ritual in all its splendor? Or are you merely stereotyping my beliefs in accordance with your Promise Keeper's manual? Perhaps you should've approached those Satanists you came across in the hospital and asked them what their daily ...[text shortened]... In any church environment you are bound to come across atleast a few reformed satanists.
Originally posted by pcaspianSo your experience in dealing with Satanists goes back to some misfit friend you had in high school? Did it ever occur to you that your friend was not adhering to the benevolent tenets of the First Church of Satan whilst performing these twisted acts? He was most likely a masochistic product of an abusive childhood who was easily manipulated by another sociopathic soul (his so-called leader) to think he was cool if he performed such acts. Just because he says he's doing it "in the name of Satan" doesn't mean he is a true Satanist. Hell, I could bludgeon someone to death with a big, heavy bible and say I did it for Jesus; would that make me a Christian? Perhaps it would be a compromise to admit that you are just a large naif who's adept at stereotypes and out of touch with reality?
Originally posted by darvlay
[b]What do these things have to do with Satanism? Have you ever witnessed a Satanist ritual in all its splendor? Or are you merely stereotyping my beliefs in accordance with your Promise Keeper's man ...[text shortened]... bound to come across atleast a few reformed satanists.
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