23 Oct 12
7 edits
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/may/01/ebay-traders-hmrc-tax-spotlight
Governments crack down on small traders yet allow corporations to pay a minimal of
taxation by creating a system whereby they can shift profits to other areas of the E.U
where corporation Tax is less. Clearly there are two tiers, one for the corporations
and another for the small trader. In a so called period of austerity, clearly there are
winners and losers, those who pay taxes on small profits and who are pursued by
government and those who dont on huge profits and who are aided by government
to avoid doing so.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/10/21/ebay-is-not-avoiding-taxes-
no-this-is-instead-the-point-of-the-system/
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAnother thread starts with a hyperbolic lie. The short answer is that the rich do pay taxes, probably more than their fair share, although that is purely subjective.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/may/01/ebay-traders-hmrc-tax-spotlight
Governments crack down on small traders yet allow corporations to pay a minimal of
taxation by creating a system whereby they can shift profits to other areas of the E.U
where corporation Tax is less. Clearly there are two tiers, one for the corporations
and another ...[text shortened]... /timworstall/2012/10/21/ebay-is-not-avoiding-taxes-
no-this-is-instead-the-point-of-the-system/
Hard to tell what you are really asking. But the objection seems to be that corporations, and the rich are successful at evading taxes, while small traders end up tracked down by the tax collector.
My experience is that everyone goes to great lengths to minimize their tax obligations. The big difference is that large corporations have in house legal and accounting teams to navigate tax law, and to guide lobbying efforts.
At the end of the day, would not flat rates, and no deductions or shelters serve both groups better?
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by normbenignRead the thread again Norm, Robbie is specifically talking about huge multinational corporations who ensure that their taxable profits are diverted to low tax havens like Luxembourg, and pay no tax, not one red cent in the country's like the UK where their profits are actually made.
Another thread starts with a hyperbolic lie. The short answer is that the rich do pay taxes, probably more than their fair share, although that is purely subjective.
Hard to tell what you are really asking. But the objection seems to be that corporations, and the rich are successful at evading taxes, while small traders end up tracked down by the tax ...[text shortened]... he end of the day, would not flat rates, and no deductions or shelters serve both groups better?
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by kevcvs57Well the "thread" contains just three posts. One can't blame multinational corporations from doing what everyone else does, that is to use their resources and the law to minimize the tax liabilities.
Read the thread again Norm, Robbie is specifically talking about huge multinational corporations who ensure that their taxable profits are diverted to low tax havens like Luxembourg, and pay no tax, not one red cent in the country's like the UK where their profits are actually made.
24 Oct 12
4 edits
Originally posted by normbenignthe point of course was that there is a clear disparity, on the one hand the
Well the "thread" contains just three posts. One can't blame multinational corporations from doing what everyone else does, that is to use their resources and the law to minimize the tax liabilities.
government is intent on cracking down on sole traders who use services like ebay and
yet create a system whereby the corporation itself can siphon off their profits while
avoiding paying anything like the tax they have generated on sales. Traditionally
corporations were able to appropriate profits in creative ways, provisions for
depreciation etc , which of course is a nonsense because no company really puts
money aside in that way, but this is an entirely legal method of tax avoidance created
by government which favours corporations, thus while ebay by way of example shaved
50 million off its tax bill, yet the government are intent on chasing sole traders for
pennies or as the Americans say, nickels and dimes. Why do you think the
government favour the rich in this way, Norm?
Originally posted by normbenignBut one can blame the system that allows this to happen - which presumably is what the OP was getting at.
Well the "thread" contains just three posts. One can't blame multinational corporations from doing what everyone else does, that is to use their resources and the law to minimize the tax liabilities.
The reason the rich don't pay taxes is because the rich have influence (due to their large spending power) and that influence has resulted in them being able to influence the system to their benefit.
Originally posted by normbenignThe "thread"consisted of one post when you rolled out your signature defence of the disparity between the political influence of the rich and the rest of us. The question goes to the 'fitness for purpose' of our democracies, and the threat posed to them by these multinational free loaders.
Well the "thread" contains just three posts. One can't blame multinational corporations from doing what everyone else does, that is to use their resources and the law to minimize the tax liabilities.
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe sense of entitlement of the Greeks is kind of funny . If you want to be bailed out from your own financial irresponsibility sometimes you have to meet the conditions of those who are giving you money.
and the very reason why the Greeks have seen their democratic rights eroded and
instead have a policy imposed upon them.
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadYes, its almost feudal in its scope. Its like the Sheriff of Nottingham and his cohorts are
But one can blame the system that allows this to happen - which presumably is what the OP was getting at.
The reason the rich don't pay taxes is because the rich have influence (due to their large spending power) and that influence has resulted in them being able to influence the system to their benefit.
allowed to kill as much game as possible with impunity while those who are poaching a
few rabbits here and there to feed their families are being pursued as outlaws. Now
while of course one should pay their fair share of taxes as is the law I refuse to believe
that the accounts of google, ebay, starbucks amazon, apple etc etc represent a fair
and honest appraisal of their tax liability, even though it is legal.
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by kevcvs57If you presume that someone is a freeloader and refuse to let anyone question that assumption then than there is nothing to discuss. There certainly is an argument that multi-national corporations (like everyone) have a right to legally use tax rules to pay less taxes.
The "thread"consisted of [b]one post when you rolled out your signature defence of the disparity between the political influence of the rich and the rest of us. The question goes to the 'fitness for purpose' of our democracies, and the threat posed to them by these multinational free loaders.[/b]
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by quackquackAs far as I am aware, creditors do not get to dictate the policy of a company. For
The sense of entitlement of the Greeks is kind of funny . If you want to be bailed out from your own financial irresponsibility sometimes you have to meet the conditions of those who are giving you money.
example you put your money into a bank, you are a creditor to that bank, does that
then entitle you to dictate what the bank does with your money? hardly, you will now
tell the forum why Greece is any different?
24 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by quackquackyou have not stated why there should be one rule for corporations and another for sole
If you presume that someone is a freeloader and refuse to let anyone question that assumption then than there is nothing to discuss. There certainly is an argument that multi-national corporations (like everyone) have a right to legally use tax rules to pay less taxes.
traders, both are engaged in business, both make profits on trading and both should be liable to pay a fair and honest share of taxes on the profits they make.
24 Oct 12
Originally posted by quackquackA profound statement. I guess no else had the insight that people who are not breaking laws are acting legally. In a slightly more serious vein, the point of this thread seems to be whether a tax code that allows this is a good one.
There certainly is an argument that multi-national corporations (like everyone) have a right to legally use tax rules to pay less taxes.