-Removed-Neither the Tories nor Labour (since Blair) have been listening to what Britons want. What they wanted was not actually to leave the European economic union, which was overwhelmingly beneficial to the UK. What they wanted was to opt out of Angelika Merkel's unilateral decision in favor of 'open borders' for ME refugees--after Bush and Blair had created a refugee crisis by stupidly invading Iraq and Afghanistan.
-Removed-It's awfully hard to present the case for limiting migration without being shunted onto the track of racist-fascist loonies, and this is largely because the only parties which actually propose strong steps to limit migration attract racist-fascist loonies. The Tories and Labour talk about limiting migration, but don't actually implement it, which has led to widespread disillusionment.
The problem with Tommy Robinson is Tommy Robinson. He sets people's teeth on edge because he is so belligerent and has such a dubious past with the law.
One of the few sensible people discussing the issue is Douglas Murray, The Strange Death of Europe is a good read. I recommend it.
@moonbus saidThumbs up.
It's awfully hard to present the case for limiting migration without being shunted onto the track of racist-fascist loonies, and this is largely because the only parties which actually propose strong steps to limit migration attract racist-fascist loonies. The Tories and Labour talk about limiting migration, but don't actually implement it, which has led to widespread disillu ...[text shortened]... discussing the issue is Douglas Murray, The Strange Death of Europe is a good read. I recommend it.
@moonbus saidEvery time I've mentioned how I'm for limiting migration it always has to be followed by three or four lengthy posts explaining that is has nothing to do with discrimination toward any group, and that I'm simply for effective ways to integrate migrants. Limiting migration is the only way to do that.
It's awfully hard to present the case for limiting migration without being shunted onto the track of racist-fascist loonies, and this is largely because the only parties which actually propose strong steps to limit migration attract racist-fascist loonies. The Tories and Labour talk about limiting migration, but don't actually implement it, which has led to widespread disillu ...[text shortened]... discussing the issue is Douglas Murray, The Strange Death of Europe is a good read. I recommend it.
Unfortunately this always attracts someone who has to make some sort of xenophobic comment, causing me to be lumped in with them. So I completely agree with your take that sensible migration talks are difficult because of "being shunted onto the track of racist-fascist loonies".
-Removed-The definition is not what matters it's the fact that your claims about Starmer already prove you don't know what it is. I never asked you to define what socialism is, it's clear from your post.
Labor can call themselves anything they want, it's their actual policies that define them, not their own claims. In these 2 months since they won, nothing Labor has passed comes close to what you define as "hard left socialism".
You should've just laughed at Starmer for accepting expensive gifts. That would've been fine. But you just had to inject false right-wing claims.