First of all guys, lets not get too excited because:
1) After 9/11 the US govt showed footage of him allegedly receiving the news of the twin towers and it wasn't even Bin Laden, so they don't have a good record over ID's
2) There's doubt over his status in the organisation, as he may no longer have been the top man anyway
3) He's not quite the peson that the UK/US propagana machines want you to think that he is. Read George Orwell's 1984. All this guy has been is the very same hate figure.
Originally posted by skeeterI almost always agree with you Skeets, but not on this account. Yes, typical steelworker response, but then again your counter argument is just as hackneyed.
Typical steelworker response. You were late to the party and then even after a gatecrash, you still managed to stuff it up ( Omaha )
And then, without Kiwi science pioneers the US of A may may have well have become a Japanese province.
Someone once said " Americans? over paid, overrated and arrogance the size of Texas."
Pity they didn't stay there.
skeets
On both the Pacific theater and D-day I think your summary is dubious. We were already at Okinawa when the A bomb was used. Likewise to cite Omaha beach as typical of US forces in the European campaign is silly.
I disagree that Americans are overpaid (look at the value of the dollar), certainly in the 1950's and 60s reaping the benefits of a fractured Europe and no competition from Asia or the Soviet block times were good but it is hardly the case now.
Overrated, by whom? Arrogant is another common term bandied about, generally combined with ignorant when talking about the US people. However, if anything the United States is nothing but a mirror of the rest of the world. More than 38 million Americans are first generation- seven times the population of NZ. Much like what has happened in England with the former colonies making up more and more of their population, the same thing has happened in the US, only people have come from all nations and continue to do so. This vision of America, as a George Bush type Texan my way or the highway, is far more media and less reality.
Originally posted by medullahI like many others, knew people lost in 9/11- that isn't propaganda. I don't pretend to have Plato's wisdom when it comes to the issue of justice, but it seems like a fair outcome for Bin Laden to me.
3) He's not quite the peson that the UK/US propagana machines want you to think that he is. Read George Orwell's 1984. All this guy has been is the very same hate figure.
Originally posted by medullahSplitting hairs there Medullah- it's clear from the FBI wanted page that he is the leader of AQ and he was on the wanted list before 9/11.
I'm not suggesting that people weren't killed, and I truly lament their death. But if you've been onto the FBI web site over the last three years you'll know that although Bin Laden was listd as a top ten most wanted, he WASN'T listed as wanted in connection with the 9/11 attrocities.
Al Capone was a "suspect" for a variety of things as well, I don't think we contend that he was the ring leader of the Chicago mafia of his day? Ultimately the Feds had to get him for tax evasion, that is the challenge of tying the brains behind an operation to the actual acts.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie- There has been a lot of scrutiny about this subject since 9/11, as far as I have surmised all of Bin Laden's direct contact during the Afghan (Soviet) War was with Saudi Intelligence. If you have a credible source I would like to read it.
yes indeed, killed by his fickle friends, the American government. Death honours no
one.
Some excellent spats between the Pakistani news 'Express 24 \ 7' and the Indian 'New Dehli TV' news channels...any advantageous political 'edge' is being taken amidst some excellent localised coverage ( not buying in footage \ reports from the BBC or CNN etc ) but NDTV leads with 'PAK, the home of terrorism' 🙁
I noted a few WWII comments regarding pay \ tensions etc in the forum here.. an overlooked aspect of this tension between the allies, certainly down under, is the FACT that U.S troops were paid at least three times the amount of their British \ ANZAC \ South African etc counterparts..with their access to consumer items in their PX supermarket they were able to live far more lavishly. To say they were comfortable, in comparison, is a vast understatement and this in turn led to some women preferring the Americans socially...immense fall outs ensued, culminating in an appalling street battle in Brisbane nov' 1942, injuring hundreds of servicemen in the process. Need I say more, check out 'Battle of Brisbane' if you have your doubts !!
Originally posted by RevRSleekerInteresting. I didn't catch the WWII quote, although I have heard of the Battle of Brisbane.
Some excellent spats between the Pakistani news 'Express 24 \ 7' and the Indian 'New Dehli TV' news channels...any advantageous political 'edge' is being taken amidst some excellent localised coverage ( not buying in footage \ reports from the BBC or CNN etc ) but NDTV leads with 'PAK, the home of terrorism' 🙁
I noted a few WWII comments regarding pay ...[text shortened]... cess. Need I say more, check out 'Battle of Brisbane' if you have your doubts !!
"overpaid, oversexed, and over here."
Not hard to imagine what a bunch of 18-22ish (kids) soldiers, overseas, binge drinking would be up to.
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Originally posted by medullahPrecisely. This is international politics, not chess. You don't win the game by taking the head honcho.
3) He's not quite the peson that the UK/US propagana machines want you to think that he is. Read George Orwell's 1984. All this guy has been is the very same hate figure.
I just saw two snippets of news. One of a rather elated person (presumably in the USA) shouting at the camera "We've won! Wree've Wrooonnn!". The other of a number of security officials all saying that we should be afraid, very afraid, of retaliatory attacks. We've won? If we're still terrified, the terrorists are still winning.
Richard
Originally posted by Shallow BlueSure you do. Checkmate the king and you win?
Precisely. This is international politics, not chess. You don't win the game by taking the head honcho.
I just saw two snippets of news. One of a rather elated person (presumably in the USA) shouting at the camera "We've won! Wree've Wrooonnn!". The other of a number of security officials all saying that we should be afraid, very afraid, of retaliato ...[text shortened]... We've won? If we're still terrified, the terrorists are still winning.
Richard