Originally posted by ZadadkaJeez, it seems I haven't been following this trend.
Why is anyone suggesting a RAID for a home user anyway?
Read/Write speeds on modern drives will have little impact; virus scanning software has by far the largest impact in that respect.
I remember at one stage there was a definite performance gain using RAID0 if you couldn't afford those Western Digital Raptor drives...
Originally posted by eatmybishopThe PSU is definitely important, but only really comes into play when you plug in power-hungry components into the very important mobo.
well if you want to be fussy about it the most important piece of hardware is the psu..... period...!
i've been working in i.t for over 10 years and in all honesty not once have i ever heard of someone building a pc based on a mob... also, if someone recommended a good cpu and suggested they build the system from that, i would class that as good advice and not advice from an idiot...
If you are not a gamer with a graphics card that sucks the power out of a city block and a liquid cooling - yes, then your PSU is critical. The 'Weekend gamers' need to look at the PSU as well, but it's not critical - it just needs to work. For most home users though, the 300/350W PSU you get with a generic chassis is sufficient.
10 Years in IT? Wow... that's pretty impressive, buddy.
Originally posted by eatmybishopYou didn't read it properly....in the gaming world, that is how it's done, and rightly, from experience.
yes, that is true, it is the beta version... more and more home users now are using raid to safeguard their data.... it is not for the sole purpose of servers anymore... maybe you're a little out of touch with the modern i.t world in that respect...
like other posters on here you too are falling into the trap of specifying a rule of thumb for building ...[text shortened]... ce, i agree with the other poster on that... he just didnt specify the best raid configuration
There's a good reason why CPU makers are buying graphics card makers...
And I didn't say that was the way for us all to do it, just pointing out the "why" Hopscotch said what he said...in a business context, yes, the CPU would be first, just as it would for a home user, which is where this thread started.
Home users would only have a RAID if that's how the machine was configured when they bought it, they wouldn't have the first clue otherwise...most home PCs are sold with a single physical drive with a "data" partition.
I always advocate separate System and Data drives....
However, the original post made no mention about data integrity, so we're both going off on one here.
Originally posted by eatmybishopUhm, they are accommodating the user. From the first page, if you understood English:
like other posters on here you too are falling into the trap of specifying a rule of thumb for building a system... and i'm sorry, but the fact you put a cpu last on the list is very poor...
the truth is the list should be accomodated for the user... going by you and hopscotch, if a user wanted to build a pc to run cubase you would buy the graphics card first, then the mob, then the cpu etc... oh dear...
Originally posted by huckleberryhound
I want to build a gaming PC
In this case you start with a GFX card, then
- Mobo that supports the card, keeping in mind RAM you want to use
- RAM and CPU (keeping in mind overclocking)
- Cooling (depending on overclocking you want to do on RAM and CPU)
- PSU with enough to spare if you want to overclock
Originally posted by eatmybishopBecause RAID0 used to give a performance gain over single disks.
i have no idea why you mention read/write speeds with regard to raid... he wants to protect the integrity of the data, raid would be a wise choice, i agree with the other poster on that... he just didnt specify the best raid configuration
I didn't specify the wrong RAID configuration - I specifically said: "If you are looking for just straight performance and don't mind taking a risk by increasing your chance of data loss, also consider RAID 0, with 2 or even 3 HDDs."
Seems I was wrong, but not for the reasons you think.
RAID5 is great for data integrity, but has the worst performance.
I didn't know this, but it seems single HDDs now are basically on par with RAID0 arrays...
@ Zadadka, is this thanks to the SATA bus and HDD manufacturing (ie. data closer together on platters etc.)?
Originally posted by CrowleyYes ... read/write speeds are comparable or better than RAID, I have SATA JBODs throughout my servers and users' machines.
Because RAID0 used to give a performance gain over single disks.
I didn't specify the wrong RAID configuration - I specifically said: "If you are looking for just straight performance and don't mind taking a risk by increasing your chance of data loss, also consider RAID 0, with 2 or even 3 HDDs."
Seems I was wrong, but not for the reasons you think.
...[text shortened]... s thanks to the SATA bus and HDD manufacturing (ie. data closer together on platters etc.)?
I run only one RAID, at one site, and that's only because a particular Microsoft product specifically required it for one solution ....otherwise, day-to-day data integrity is taken care of by byte-level replication and failover techniques, to local JBOD drive and/or elsewhere ....
in fairness to the two of you, i think we're all kinda on the right track here, but looking at it from different angles...
this debate is like saying whats the best sports car...
when building a pc i do go for the cpu first.... but i have to back down and say if someone wants to go for the mob first then it would not be unwise in the slightest... i did build a pc for a musician once and of course went for the soundcard first, then cpu... the mob is usually an afterthought with me and maybe that's an error on my part
it's good and refreshing to hear how other people do it.... is there a right way to it.... i dont know....
as for the most important hardware.... i did say psu and i think few would disagree.... i wonder if that answer would still be correct after the user has had the pc for a few months.... if i had to say the most important part in a pc.... it can only ever be the harddrive... people care about their photos and music... not their cpu
Originally posted by eatmybishopI think we can agree that "the right way" entirely depends on the machine's intended use.
in fairness to the two of you, i think we're all kinda on the right track here, but looking at it from different angles...
this debate is like saying whats the best sports car...
when building a pc i do go for the cpu first.... but i have to back down and say if someone wants to go for the mob first then it would not be unwise in the slightest... t can only ever be the harddrive... people care about their photos and music... not their cpu
In this instance, Huck is looking for a gaming machine, so I have to repeat that Hopscotch was right from the get-go.
Originally posted by eatmybishopYou are right, the PSU is VERY important, but only because it gets overlooked easily when building a PC. Most people don't understand that more powerful/faster components puts huge strain on the PSU, especially when fans get dirty etc.
as for the most important hardware.... i did say psu and i think few would disagree.... i wonder if that answer would still be correct after the user has had the pc for a few months.... if i had to say the most important part in a pc.... it can only ever be the harddrive... people care about their photos and music... not their cpu
But, when building a PC from scratch, it is the last thing to consider, though very important.
First, build the PC to specs for which you want to use it - then add a PSU with sufficient power adequate for the sum of your component power consumption + room for future expansion + room for overclocking + some safety buffer.
The HDD is also important, but it is easy to expand on or upgrade, if you bought the right mobo; Whereas upgrading your mobo later is almost impossible...
Save yourself a lot of pain and get one of these :
http://www.engadget.com/tag/Xps420/
I have my flame retardant pants on, Dell haters. 😉
Anyway, I have a (nerdy, therefore trusted) friend with one who rates his. (A quad core setup)
-Russ
And no I don't have shares in Dell.
edit : And only get vista on a pre-built machine, or you shall experience much pain.
Originally posted by RussDell machines are good kit for the most part, and certainly just dandy for home users, provided you accept high replacement parts costs after warranty expiry (Zad's Tip: get extended Warranty).
Save yourself a lot of pain and get one of these :
http://www.engadget.com/tag/Xps420/
I have my flame retardant pants on, Dell haters. 😉
Anyway, I have a (nerdy, therefore trusted) friend with one who rates his. (A quad core setup)
-Russ
And no I don't have shares in Dell.
edit : And only get vista on a pre-built machine, or you shall experience much pain.
I have a Dell Optiplex GX400 that has been the DC in my home network for just over six years, is currently quite happily running W2k3 Server, and has not failed me once.
After bitter experience, however, I would never again entertain them in a corporate environment ...
But this rather defeats what Huck is trying to achieve Russ, he wants the pain...and I say : let him have it !! 🙂
Only a gamer or an I.T. dork would want to build their own computer. An I.T. dork would not ask questions about computer hardware in the general forum on a chess website, therefore we can conclude that Huckleberryhound is a gamer.
(psst... therefore we can conclude that he'll want to build a computer for gaming purposes)
MONEY:
Core 2 Extreme QX6800: $1100
Core 2 Duo E6600: $230
GeForce 8800Ultra: $650
GeForce 7950GT: $200
Mid range motherboard: $150
Uber overclocking motherboard: $300
1) If you start with the best CPU:
QX6800 + 7950GT + mid range mobo = $1450
2) If you start with the best graphics card:
8800Ultra + overclocking mobo + E6600 = $1180
If your CPU dies in #1, that's $1100 gone.
If your Graphics card dies in #2, that's $650 gone.
3) If you have lots of money:
QX6800 + overclocking mobo + 8800 Ultra = $2050
With PC #3 your saved game of Starcraft 2 will load exactly 3 seconds faster than PC #2
Motherboards are very important, but I don't think there is enough of a price difference between the uber and the n00b for us to give them a priority. They fit in at number 2 in my hardware hierarchy because they have to bridge the gap between CPU and GPU.
Please note: all monetary amounts were approximated by me wasting 10 minutes on Google. Also, if you are anal retentive, now would be a good time to begin composing your criticism of these prices.
Finally,
I heard Directx10.1 is going to make ALL EXISTING GRAPHICS CARDS OBSOLETE.
Vistahahahah!
Originally posted by hopscotchIsn't SLI the way to go ?
Only a gamer or an I.T. dork would want to build their own computer. An I.T. dork would not ask questions about computer hardware in the general forum on a chess website, therefore we can conclude that Huckleberryhound is a gamer.
(psst... therefore we can conclude that he'll want to build a computer for gaming purposes)
MONEY:
Core 2 Extreme QX6
I heard Directx10.1 is going to make ALL EXISTING GRAPHICS CARDS OBSOLETE.
Vistahahahah!
(for all your directx 10.1 needs 😛)