have any of you guys watched the film Fitna, i was so disturbed by it that I could not watch anymore, just wondered how you felt ? Please keep any comments tasteful and about the film. I used to live in Pakistan, and know more about Muslim values and culture than you could hope to imagine, so please keep it about the film, sincere and thoughtful comments most appreciated - regards Robert. if anyone has not seen it here is the link.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=216_1207467783
I have a copy of the Quran on cd with both Arabic and English translations side by side, and as Muslims will point out to you at great length if you ask them that the Quran has not been changed, although this is unprovable as the original sayings were committed to memory or written on scraps of parchment, leather, bones etc, so its obviously hard to corroborate, therefore the excerpts that you see are generally sound, although critics have pointed out that they are taken out of context, which of course can be said of any quotation, in fact it happens on this site regularly, thanks for your thoughtful comment !😀
oh i just might reply that I am glad for your comment as I suspected that the post would be a complete whitewash, much in the same way that the forum members reacted to Fischers death, you know how our American cousins are terribly insular, perhaps they all work for the B.B.C, they should listen to more Green Day, Lol.😀
Originally posted by marmalade teacakeYes, they are real quotes out oh the koran.
Its clearly propaganda, but very convincing and compelling propaganda. Can anyone supply evidence that will confirm / deny the quotes from the Quran?
But just look at the old testament! That's pretty sick too.
Fitna is right wing propaganda by an extremely right-wing politician, one who doesn't turn up at any of the debates on the issues he raises, because he knows thst he's generalising millions of people, based on the behaviour of a few.
One could make such a film about any religion or political movement and it would be equally true.
Originally posted by shavixmirso regardless of the actions of Geert Wilders and regardless of what is written in other religious books, you feel that the film is essentially a true portrayal of Islamic ideology but that it does not represent either the aspirations of Muslims in general in thought or action?
Yes, they are real quotes out oh the koran.
But just look at the old testament! That's pretty sick too.
Fitna is right wing propaganda by an extremely right-wing politician, one who doesn't turn up at any of the debates on the issues he raises, because he knows thst he's generalising millions of people, based on the behaviour of a few.
One could make such a film about any religion or political movement and it would be equally true.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieI cannot believe anyone can actually take propagande like this serious, getting themselves winded up or being shocked. Please know many people up here laugh at Geertje Wilders for plain sillyness and being whiney. Ignoring is all it takes. There are millions of opinions about everything, you don't need to listen to them all or to debate to them even if you disagree. Whiney people are all over the world. But the ones that get the most attention, are the ones that hit on the easily offended ones. Almost too easy...
have any of you guys watched the film Fitna, i was so disturbed by it that I could not watch anymore, just wondered how you felt ? Please keep any comments tasteful and about the film. I used to live in Pakistan, and know more about Muslim values and culture than you could hope to imagine, so please keep it about the film, sincere and thoughtful com ...[text shortened]... rt. if anyone has not seen it here is the link.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=216_1207467783
Originally posted by shavixmirI actually thought that's what you did write, as your post states and I quote, 'equally true', please forgive me if I have misrepresented your thoughts but this is how I genuinely perceived it, and in any case, I was asking what people thought about the film, not about Mr Wilders as a person, nor his actions, nor what's in the Bible or any other religious book, I thought that I made this quite clear at the outset!
No. Nor is that what I wrote.
Originally posted by Daemon SinNo i am not looking for a fight, I am genuinely interested in what people thought about the film. The idea behind revealing that I used to live in Pakistan was intended as a deterrent for people taking liberties and making strong assertions about a culture with which they have little experience - thanks for taking the time to look at the post - regards Robbie Carrobbie
Sounds like you're just looking for a fight.
Originally posted by Aikoit was actually the graphic images that was so shocking not the so called in your own words, 'propaganda', at least to me anyhow, seeing a man having his head cut off with a small implement was too much, and once again I am asking about comments about the actual content of the film, highlighting the faults of the film maker says nothing about the actual content of the film itself and only serves to draw attention away from the it, thanks for taking the time to comment -regards Robbie.
I cannot believe anyone can actually take propagande like this serious, getting themselves winded up or being shocked. Please know many people up here laugh at Geertje Wilders for plain sillyness and being whiney. Ignoring is all it takes. There are millions of opinions about everything, you don't need to listen to them all or to debate to them even if you disa ...[text shortened]... t get the most attention, are the ones that hit on the easily offended ones. Almost too easy...
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"One could make such a film about any religion or political movement and it would be equally true."
I actually thought that's what you did write, as your post states and I quote, 'equally true', please forgive me if I have misrepresented your thoughts but this is how I genuinely perceived it, and in any case, I was asking what people thought about the film, not about Mr Wilders as a person, nor his actions, nor what's in the Bible or any other religious book, I thought that I made this quite clear at the outset!
That's my thoughts on the film. Like I said before.
And...are you denying that the quotes in the film are from the koran, then?
Originally posted by shavixmiralthough i have not corroborated them personally due to lack of time, from memory these quotes are definitely contained in the Quran, a book i personally feel to be peculiarly Arabic in that it shows a very Arabic outlook i.e. the description of Heaven, many fair skinned women attending to the needs of the faithful believer, cool winds etc etc. what if I may say with regard to the content and purpose of the film, which is admittedly conjecture as I have no real way of knowing what motivated the films author, is that i genuinely think that he is very concerned with what he perceives to be the very real threat of the Islamisation of not only his country, but Europe and by extension the world, as is evidenced by his choice of footage, also, this is further enhanced by what again he perceives to be the spinelessness, if i may use the phrase, of politicians to stand up to this perception, even acknowledge its existence let alone do anything about it, therefore out of frustration he has taken his case to the people by posting it on the net, evidence of which is the fact that the majority of his own people wanted the film aired on national television but were prevented. the film has been labelled 'propaganda', and to be sure it is, but it raises very serious issues. There are many beautiful things in both cultures, but there are also many ugly things as well, why blind ourselves to this fact by shooting the messenger just because we don't want to hear the message. I really appreciate you comments as i truly feel its important to consider the opinions of others, regards Robbie.
"One could make such a film about any religion or political movement and it would be equally true."
That's my thoughts on the film. Like I said before.
And...are you denying that the quotes in the film are from the koran, then?
I have no real knowledge of the Quran or Islamic religion / beliefs in general (like the majority of the population I guess?). So far, I have failed to see anything "beautiful" in it at all. It all appears to be totally violence based, with everything "good" being there for the devout, a reward system for extreme behaviour. Itwould be interesting (and far more worthwile) if Muslims were to combat the bad perception of their religion by highlighting the noble and good within it, instead of just calling for more bloodshed.