Originally posted by rwingettCheers! to you.
...You are correct that lack of evidence does not prove the non-existence of god....
You seem to be laboring under the grave misconception that there are two claims in play here, with the theist claiming there is a god on the one hand, and the atheist claiming there is no god on the other. This is completely and utterly false. ...
For JesusFreak, I suggest subscribing to this site: http://www.killingthebuddha.com (NO, I'm not affiliated with them.)
Here's an excerpt of their philosophy:
"The idea of "killing the Buddha" comes from a famous Zen line, the context of which is easy to imagine: After years on his cushion, a monk has what he believes is a breakthrough: a glimpse of nirvana, the Buddhamind, the big pay-off. Reporting the experience to his master, however, he is informed that what has happened is par for the course, nothing special, maybe even damaging to his pursuit. And then the master gives the student dismaying advice: If you meet the Buddha, he says, kill him.
Why kill the Buddha? Because the Buddha you meet is not the true Buddha, but an expression of your longing. If this Buddha is not killed he will only stand in your way.
Killing the Buddha is a metaphor for moving past the complacency of belief, for struggling honestly with the idea of God.
Originally posted by rwingettYou are seeking to demonstrate a GOD as some sort of a magical entity. The GOD who at the same time is also a personal omnipotent, omnipresent, infinitely compassionate Supreme Being , Who keeps track of the thoughts, words and deeds of all human beings, (rather all creatures ), loves all, and awards benediction and sometimes punishes us when we go astray. Right? Even when He gives sorrow, it is for our ultimate benefit and salvation- spiritual salvation and not material salvation. right? If such a universal Supreme Being exists, He is not confined to just one individual's experience.
All the argument from evil demonstrates is that a god that is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent is incompatible with the presence of evil in the world. It's still possible that there is a god who lacks one or more of those qualities. There are theodicies that claim just that. The tack usually taken in this regard is that god is not omnibenevolent. ...[text shortened]... m is irresponsible. It gains you nothing and gives great comfort to the christian apologists.
He is being experienced simultaneously by many of us. Yet He is the same. Each individual does not have separate individual Gods, though each individual has his own unique different experience.
What He should mean to You , should also means to everyone. Yet My God and your God as the formal logical entity fulfilling your rigourous definitions are the same entity.
And so it should be for everyone if he is to be the GOD of your definition. Such a universal God, whenever He is experienced by someone, though being one and the same, should appears to each one according to his love and devotion and faith. Do you see there is some inherent contradiction ?
If he manifests himself only in each individuals' experience, He cannot be amenable to " experimental " demonstration regarding His existence or regarding the demonstration of His powers as demanded by you.
My point is that this is not so. God's power and His love are being constantly manifested through all of us and through every phenomenon in this beautiful universe. Only thing needed is just the inner orientation to see Him. I don't prefer to call this inner orientation , the faith of the theists. I would call it the attitude of scientific open minded objectiveness, which, in broader sense, would include the objective study of conciousness. I once again would refer you to read the beautiful works of Karl Popper, e.g. THE WATCHMAKER, THE MIND OF GOD etc. It is a worthwhile intellectual challenge. The concept of a personal God is not incompatible with an impersonal entity or force working through nature according to certain "devine" laws. These divine laws have been discovered and experienced by seers and mystics and they say that the divine law is detached and yet is the law of love. And they also say that it is as exact, as inexorable, as the laws of physics.
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Originally posted by JesusFreak2562000Is this what passes for english?
first it's not "my god" it's the god and How can you look at this world and not be struck with awe. how can say this is chance any close to the sun we would burn up any farther from it and we would freeze chance ha! you can't understand because no one but Jesus can no human can But we know he God creator of hevaen and earth has a plan and knows all even how many hairs are on your head and he has a purpose for everthing
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Originally posted by pinkthunderI have a basic fundamental question. If there is an Almighty or God of this vast universe, He must be one and THE only one for all creatures, all beings - whether he be muslim or christian or any other. How can He instigate one group of his followers to kill other fellow beings in His creation? But it is a fact that in the name of God or Allah , some people do kill others, with a strong conviction (belief) of being rewarded by "their" God for such acts of violence.
Cheers! to you.
For JesusFreak, I suggest subscribing to this site: http://www.killingthebuddha.com (NO, I'm not affiliated with them.)
Here's an excerpt of their philosophy:
"The idea of "killing the Buddha" comes from a famous Zen line, the context of which is easy to imagine: After years on his cushion, a monk has what he believes is a breakt ...[text shortened]... or for moving past the complacency of belief, for struggling honestly with the idea of God.
Does it not prove that there is , in reality , no God. People are fighting and killing for an illusory concept of God, which is their own creation? It also means that any strong group of brainwashed people, with a larger number of committed followers ready to kill or get killed , can wreak havoc on the rest of the humanity and perpetrate the atrocious dictatorship of the leadership of that group.
And if there is no God then it is perfectly fine for the victor. There is nothing wrong in torturing the victim, if there is no God, for , it is perfectly all right from the point of view of the victor. The fact that this sort of dictatorial and tortuous philosophy has been exponentially successful in the course of history, is a very strong proof of the non-existence of God. Look at history. Islamic empire has seen only one-way irreversible expansion. It works through the grip of the triumphalist philosophy that is Islam. As long as it works (from their point of view) for them no amount of logic or rationalisation on humanitarian considerations is going to convince the leaders of muslim community.
Jesus Christ's love and compassion may appeal to philosophers, not to empire builders. Even today, in day to day life common man can be better subjugated by the mediaval barbaric methods of terror - tactics. Saints can only die for the cause of love and compassion. Saints can never rule. Ruling over peoples is the central idea inherent in Islam. Though the concept of a terrorising people in the name of God, has been built around the social customs to tame the rebels, actually it is not God but the dictatorial community leaders who wreak havoc on those who dare to question the authority of the community leaders. Thus islam is more of a successful political philosophy, than a religeon. This political philosophy is shrewedly wrapped up in the garb of God's horrifying commands claimed to have been communicated to the "prophet" .
Nobody is allowed to question this, not even non-muslims. Recently a minister (obviously muslim) in the government of one of the states of India openly announced a reward of Rs. 510 million ( about $ 11 million) to anyone who can behead the Denmark cartoonist who had made a cartoon of Prophet Mohammad. In a population of 1200 million muslims around the world , there is always the the possibility of some freak zealot finding enough motivation and the chance to execute this sort of command of beheading the poor cartoonist. All in the name of Allah and Jihad. If , they get a chance, they may even slit your throat, for floating your web-site. Rarest of the rare can muster courage to raise any slightaest voice of reason to question the basic tenets of islam.
All over the world , in all the countries muslims are expanding, their population is rising faster than other religious groups. As soon as muslims become a majority in any country, they declare the country an islamic state ruled according to sharia, the islamic law. Even modern educated muslims have to ultimately surrender. You may win intellectually, but you will not be allowed to build a society based on principles of freedom, secularism and democracy in any country where muslims are in majority. Look at what is happening in Iraq. Don't you think that , in trying to build democracy in Iraq , sooner or later US will have to beat an ignominous retreat from Iraq?
Such is the grip of islamic totalitarianism. Common muslims too are not to be blamed. They are at best helpless victims to a system , which they can't break free out of, no matter how much they wish to.
But there is yet some reason to believe that perhaps there may indeed be a God. Else how could there emerge people like Ali Sina and Taslima Nasreen from among the muslims, who have staked their life and risked livelihood for the sake of human values, for the values of love, compassion, freedom, democracy and has raised the sane voice of reason.
May God ( if there be any God), give them success and fulfilment . May the muslims all over the world be liberated from the vice like grip of evil Islam. May the muslims live free and may tyrannical Islam be gone. may a new humanitarian islam , of the true universal values, take the place of the old dictatorial islam. Every religion has some outdated belief-system. Let all religions converge to the common humanitarian values of a modern religion of today. Some day somebody will have to fill the vacuum. You cannot hope the people to live in vacuum. If you must take away what has lost relevance, what has become stale and counter-productive, then you must also give them something positive to look forward to in its place. And you must be honest. If you suggest them the alternative of christianity, you will be discredited as an agent of the expansionist church. Some real workable alternative , which appeals to the modern mind of the common man.
Doing only first half of the job will not work. For the job of trying to liberate the victims. I think, one also has to take up the task of suggesting the positive alternative too. Otherwise soon people will revert to their old cocoon of safety- for, there is safety in NOT THINKING; there is safety in NOT analysing and there is safety in treading the beaten path. This latter danger is a real and strong danger. Without an alternative, any critical analysis remains just an empty criticism
Right now the minds of all thinking people, all over the world, are in turmoil. But I am sure an alternative will emerge , if there is a God.
Originally posted by ranjan sinhaIt seems to me that this statement has to be true whether God is real or is made up.
I have a basic fundamental question. If there is an Almighty or God of this vast universe, He must be one and THE only one for all creatures, all beings - whether he be muslim or christian or any other.
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Originally posted by ranjan sinhaLogically speaking you may be right. But the spiritual matters demand blind faith. Logic does not work in the realm of religion. And faith works...this is the message of both Jesus as well as Prophet Mohammed.
Jesus Christ's love and compassion may appeal to philosophers, not to empire builders. Even today, in day to day life common man can be better subjugated by the mediaval barbaric methods of terror - tactics. Saints can only die for the cause of love and compassion. Saints can never rule. Ruling over peoples is the central idea inherent in Islam. Though r the world, are in turmoil. But I am sure an alternative will emerge , if there is a God.