originally posted my omnislash in the thread he longest thread in RHP history
And for that matter, what's up with goths? I mean, hey, I dig the whole dark look thing if that's what you like, but running around with fake arse fangs telling peope you are a vampire and acting depressed despite the fact that they often come from some rich suburb? Come on! Some of those guys take it way too dang far to be healthy.
sorry to bring this up-but the acting depressed bit's been biting at me for a while. of the goths/moshers that i am good friends with, one is upper-middle class (his dad's an accountant), but lot of the rest are depressed. i know 2 people for definate slit their wrists. one goth hates her mum-and she doesn't just say it-she hates her mum! anothers parents are splitting up. another hasn't seen her dad for about 4 months cause he's in the navy, and her mum works for most of the day in a dead-end job so she spends almost all of the time she's at home alone (i would go into that one more in detail, but i don't cause jacko might read it and i was told it all in confidence). another's dad's in america, his step-dad cares nothing for him, and the only money he gets to spend is the stuff that his dad sends over, which is not a lot. i even know someone who's abused by their parents
a couple of years ago, a girl in the year above me in my school killer herself because she was so depressed. (it was only then that the headmaster stopped blaming the goths for the way the dressed and getting bullied because of it) her dad refused to pay for the funeral, and he wasn't going to turn up-he did eventually, but still... some of these people have really crappy lives-and it's not their fault!
anyway-i was also wondering-veryone knows that the punks listened to punk rock, and they were the teenages of the 70's, but what music did the hippies listen to, and what came between the punks and todaygs goths?
I agree with genius on this one...no matter how we dress, how we act, how we look, how we behave: we are all humans and no one is worth more than anyone!
One of my biggest friends is a goth(ic) (she's a girl, I don't know if that changes the word 'goth'😉 and when we do something together, she's often followed by many eyes...and she's always asking if I don't mind and stuff.....I thought we lived in a social, multi-cultural world..:'(
Olav
Okay, there are a lot of misconceptions about goths and this isn't helped by a lot of the goths themselves.
I've been going to goth clubs for about 8 years, but in England so I know less of the situation in America.
There are basically 2 types of goth (a simplification). One group takes it's roots from the late 70's. Bands such as Joy Division, Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees and others. This was very closely related to punk, and several of these groups started out as pure punk.
I the late 80's The Sister's of Mercy, The Mission and others joined the Cure as the big goth groups. Fields of Nephilim were around late 80's to 90's.
In the early 90's the goths were generally very elitist, humourless and haughty. They stereotypically cherished intellectualism, poetry, morbidity, desenchantment with humanity. All very romantic and Byronesque.
After this there was a backlash as people got sick of this which led to goths being a lot more cheery, starting to listen to electronic music, wear bright (UV!) colours, including pink. This formed a schism, generally known as Trad vs. Bleepy. The depressed thing is very passe though. These types are generally quite old (average age about 28 according to uk.people.gothic).
The second group is generally much younger, take their influence from US bands such as Marylin Manson, and erm..others 🙂
I don't know much about these except they seem to be angst ridden teenagers who want to piss everbody off.
For every 'older' goth trying to reassure local newspapers that goths aren't all evil, there is a 'teenygoth' saying 'we worship satan and eat babies'.
Which annoys the older ones as it gets them a bad name.
Anyway, this is my take on it, there are 'History of Goth' sites out there.
No, no, you've got it all wrong. The Goths were a Germanic people active from the waning days of the Roman Empire to around 700 AD. They were split into two groups; the Ostrogoths (East Goths), and the Visigoths (West Goths). The Visigoths settled first in southern France, and then in Spain, until they were overrun by the Moors who invaded from North Africa. The Ostrogoths settled in northern Italy and established a kingdom under Theodoric the Great. After Theodoric's death, the Ostrogoths were defeated and assimilated into the Byzantine Empire. After suffering such defeats, I guess the Goths would be justified in being a little gloomy. So, I hope this has been helpful and has cleared up some misconceptions. 😉
Perhaps I can shed some light on this matter. To start with, I will tell you about myself. I am twenty and semi-punk. I say "semi" because I have a wife and son now, so the wearing of spikes and general anachy type behavior is not conducive with being a the head of a household. Nonetheless, I retain the majority of my old friend who are typically either goth or punk. This is my understanding of the world from my own eyes and my friends.
The modern US "punk" and "goth" share common ground in that they are both unsatisfied with their personal lives and the social structure they are in. T
he "punk" expresses themself and copes with their life by: wearing spikes and flambouyant clothing meant to give a "tuff" image, supporting and partaking in anarchistic endeavors, and having a general love of disregarding rules (society) and shocking people with their actions, music, and clothing. The punks goal is to create mayhem and put the unusual in the spot light. The message of the punk is, "I do not fit in with your lifestyle. I will not change myself to suit you. I am different and your system has failed me. I will not be ignored."
The typical "goth" is very similar, except they have chosen a different outlet. While the punk may be said to be "angry", the goth is "sad". Now, I don't mean to say that the goths aren't angry too, but their reaction is more depressed with the world than other emotions. The goth snubs the world because it is unadequeate. They see the flaws in the so-called perfect system and understand how hopeless the situation is. I believe the two words that best describe gothic are "morbid" and "cynical". Just like with punks, goths vary from person to person. One may just seem manic depressed and clothe themselves within their sorrow. Their aim is usually to share their sorrow with others like them. On the other side, some see it more cynically. This is greatly where the similar appearance comes in. The only visual differential from punks to goths is that goths wear all black. The cynical goth take their "tuffness" from their dark and mysterious appearance. They feel that people at large CAN'T understand the BS world around them like they do, let alone understand them. Very independant and thoughtful people. Unlike punks, there are a number of "loner" goths. They are the hardest to describe of all, but they play their role in the "classification" (ahem, bad choice of words but I can't find anything better) of what a goth is just as well as the others.
Either side is FAR too complex to explain in a simple sitting. Both are similar in many ways. I am finding that recently they are a lot of people who may be considered to be both. Just the tip of a huge sociological ice berg and a list of issues. I just hope this may have helped a little.
🙂