Originally posted by martinbeaver"are we reaching a point when every possible game and variation has been played and recorded?"
are we reaching a point when every possible game and variation has been played and recorded?
Do you think that there will be a major change in the rules of chess in order to create more possibilities or is it already perfect and timeless?
Not a chance. There are far too many possible games for this to happen, even with the best of today's supercomputers. However, what might happen is that most sensible moves and formations get analysed to the point where one move is known to be not significantly worse than any other. I don't think this'll happen soon, though.
"Do you think that there will be a major change in the rules of chess in order to create more possibilities or is it already perfect and timeless?"
Chess is neither perfect nor timeless; very little ever is. In fact, there are already many, many variants of chess, some of which are quite popular, an one day chess might die out to be replaced by different games, chess-related or otherwise. But I think standard European chess is sufficiently good and popular that there won't be any major changes in it for a very long time. AFAIK the last important changes in the rules of the game were en passant and castling, but they've been around for centuries now.
Even if the 'magic' of chess is destroyed by computers, there's always Go; apparently, if you give a complete beginner about 10 hours' training in the game, he'll be as good as the best computer Go programs out there.
Originally posted by Acolytethere is an interesting story that edward lasker tells about how he and the lasker brothers berthold and emanuel became very interested in go and studied it intensively. they had an opportunity to play a go master who allowed them to consult as well as gave them a handicap of nine moves (something like Queens odds in chess). emanuel laughed saying he didn't think anyone could offer him those odds provided he had the time to think out his moves. at any rate, the game progressed with the master taking scarely a second for each of his moves and completely demolished the lasker team.
there's always Go
emanuel was downcast, but wanted to head for japan to play with their experts to master what he called "the ideal game for a mathematical mind"
🙂
Originally posted by AcolyteGo is a great game. I've played twice...that is to say, I've spent 16 hours of my life playing Go 😉
"are we reaching a point when every possible game and variation has been played and recorded?"
Not a chance. There are far too many possible games for this to happen, even with the best of today's supercomputers. However, what might happen is that most sensible moves and formations get analysed to the point where one move is known to be not significa ...[text shortened]... t 10 hours' training in the game, he'll be as good as the best computer Go programs out there.
Originally posted by royalchickenI'd wager that chess has plenty of life in it.
Go is a great game. I've played twice...that is to say, I've spent 16 hours of my life playing Go 😉
After watching the scene with Max and Saul in the film "Pi" I took to playing Go against a friend of mine who had been playing for some time. I have rather a limited knowledge of the finer points of the game but I still find it terrific...I suspect that over time as I uncover more of the beauty I'll become even more enamoured. Much like chess perhaps.
Several months ago Russ mentioned an idea of his for creating another website, either as an offshoot of RHP or completely separate, which could involve the online playing of other games, Go possibly being one of them.
T1000
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Originally posted by T1000Great film, 'Pi'. Did you see 'Requiem for a Dream'? (Same director--too embarassed by having a go at spelling his name.)
I'd wager that chess has plenty of life in it.
After watching the scene with Max and Saul in the film "Pi" I took to playing Go against a friend of mine who had been playing for some time. I have rather a limited knowledge of the finer ...[text shortened]... e playing of other games, Go possibly being one of them.
T1000
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Originally posted by royalchickenAgreed. The lecture Saul gives Max about the dangers of what happens when you start giving up rigour and begin becoming a numerologist, and about seeing the number 216 everywhere if you look for it sends shivers down the spine.
Great film, 'Pi'. Did you see 'Requiem for a Dream'? (Same director--too embarassed by having a go at spelling his name.)
Ach, nevermind embarrasment. Am sure the elimination of embarrassment is one of the first steps to any kind of personal security/enlightenment. Dan Aranovsky I think. Mebbe with an 'f'. Was Requiem for a Dream his second film after Pi? Have heard about it but never seen in. Does it carry the RC stamp of recommendation?
T1000
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Originally posted by royalchickenUntil Russ writes the definitive one (which I'd gladly double my subscription for!) can anyone find a usable online "email" Go site?
Go is a great game. I've played twice...that is to say, I've spent 16 hours of my life playing Go 😉
I'd quite like to get back into Go, I played it quite a few times as a kid until my dad gave up playing me. Then when I was about 17 I had 1 game against someone who had played it a bit more seriously and got utterly trounced!
Originally posted by T1000Yeah, second movie I think. Definitely recommended.
Agreed. The lecture Saul gives Max about the dangers of what happens when you start giving up rigour and begin becoming a numerologist, and about seeing the number 216 everywhere if you look for it sends shivers down the spine.
Ach, nevermind embarrasment. Am sure the elimination of embarrassment is one of the first steps to any kind of personal security/e ...[text shortened]... i? Have heard about it but never seen in. Does it carry the RC stamp of recommendation?
T1000
No its far from played out . The total number of possible different games of chess of 40 moves and less has been estimated to be 250 to the 115 power . This number is far larger than the estimated number of atoms in the known universe. Larger than the estimated number of all words spoken by mankind .---Possibly even larger than Kasparov's or ex-president Clinton;s ego..--BBG
Originally posted by martinbeaverThere will always be ways of adding interest, see this article regarding the first chess "engines", Turk, Mephisto etc
are we reaching a point when every possible game and variation has been played and recorded?
Do you think that there will be a major change in the rules of chess in order to create more possibilities or is it already perfect and timeless?
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7378/automat.htm
fascinating stuff
Romeo
Originally posted by bluebabygirlProbably closer to 10^45. Where did you get your estimate?
No its far from played out . The total number of possible different games of chess of 40 moves and less has been estimated to be 250 to the 115 power . This number is far larger than the estimated number of atoms in the known universe. Larger than the estimated number of all words spoken by mankind .---Possibly even larger than Kasparov's or ex-president Clinton;s ego..--BBG