Originally posted by PawnokeyholeNo. Induction is a process of constant reassessment,
That may not be a good analogy.
Suppose, visiting a new country, I get stung by two insects. The natives call then "wasps".
Would it be irrational for me to conclude that all wasps I subsequently can sting? Would it be irrational for me to ask others if they had similar experiences of wasps?
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeThe thing is though he did not give a size. That is a hypothetical that Wheely conjured up.
But his suspicions about the general character of Israelis still appear to be disproportionate given the size of the sample from which he has derived those suspicions.
But he is, at least, willing to have his suspicions disconfirmed.
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Well anyway. Living in Prestwich in Manchester, I've met a fair few Jewish people in my time. There is a large Jewish community here. The majority of them arriving during the years of the holocaust. Some are lovely people and some tend to keep themselves to themselves.
Generally, and I hate to generalise 😉 , I think it is the orthodox contingency that keeps itself to itself. This I don't find offensive though, as some people do. If people don't want to integrate into a society then it's their loss I guess. And who can blame them any way? How many English people do you know that go 1000 mile on holiday abroad and go and look for the English bar? Quite a lot I should think. Then there are the ones who like a bit ofculture and something different and try to mingle with the locals.
Different people are different. Regardless of sex religion ethnicity etc. You'll always find a bad apple in every barrel.
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Originally posted by FrenchQueenYou're all doing it again!!
I quote: " I have met lots of French people, and most of them I like. . . blah blah blah.... Except Israelis".
So he has met two Israelis he didn't like and states he does not like Israelis. If this is not a generalization, then please tell me what it is.
Basically he is saying that he has not had any positive experiences with Israelis and the ...[text shortened]... d experiences/encounters.
In other words, are people out there bad until proven good?
Nobody knows how many Israelis this guy has met. I said two, not him. He also hasn't said he doesn't like Israelis. He has said that he hasn't met any he likes which may well be the case.
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeThanks 🙂
Wheely is just trying to be fair.
For the record I, personally have met one Israeli. At first I thought she was very arrogant and rude. It was only after a while that I grew to realise that she wasn't being intentionally rude but it was just her manner. She was quite a nice lady really. I didn't decide all Israeli people were the same.
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Originally posted by WheelyLook, I'm trying to understand where he's coming from. . . but I can't.
You're all doing it again!!
Nobody knows how many Israelis this guy has met. I said two, not him. He also hasn't said he doesn't like Israelis. He has said that he hasn't met any he likes which may well be the case.
Ok, maybe he's not met two Israelis, but a few. What difference does it make?
He's never met an Israeli that he liked, but does someone really need to show him that they're not all bad? Oh pleeeaaaaase!😞
Originally posted by cashthetrashWow!
I see your point. Fair to the original poster, yet unfair to all the Israelis? Why didn't I think how fair that was?
I'm not aware of being unfair to Israelis either. If someone said they didn't like any of the English people they had met and could someone please tell them that there really are some nice ones, how does that reflect on all English people?
It doesn't. It worries me that people tend to get into a mindset that they are for this and against that and jump down the throat of anybody who even remotely looks like they fit into the "that" category without actually looking objectively at the facts.
Originally posted by FrenchQueenI agree. I mentioned to Shav that I thought the post was "pointless". However, I was rather alarmed at the sudden and rather vocal "racist" label that was thrown at someone who is probably just mentioning an ill thought out, flippant observation about his own experience. He MAY feel that all Israelis are bad but you can't, in my view, infer that from what he says.
Look, I'm trying to understand where he's coming from. . . but I can't.
Ok, maybe he's not met two Israelis, but a few. What difference does it make?
He's never met an Israeli that he liked, but does someone really need to show him that they're not all bad? Oh pleeeaaaaase!😞
We need to ask him more questions to find out.
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Originally posted by cashthetrashOn the contrary, I think Wheely is correct. There's nothing wrong with stating what one has noticed, even if it does catagorize based on race. What is wrong is assuming that all people of this race must be the same way. Granted, the orginal poster may have done this subtly when he challenged someone from Israel to prove him wrong; this is starting to form a generalization, though a rational one from the information he has collected. If you were arguing that this was his only fault, I'd find that reasonable. However, I think most people are just being far too sensitive when it comes to the possibility of racism and not realizing that very little if not no racism was present in his post.
I am not sure you are thinking at all. How do you know he is not lying? Saying that all Israelis are not nice, friendly can't have a friend more than one day, Saying nothing nice has ever happened in their life is not derogatory? Come on everything he said about then was derogatory. When he says "If there are any people from Israel here, prove me wrong ike he wants a debate to me.
You are kidding right. Sarcasm?
Yea, that's it. has to be.
EDIT: Just read the rest of the thread. Looks like I'm in for some harassment for being level-headed and agreeing with Wheely.
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Originally posted by WheelyI fail to see how you can't infer that from his comments!
I agree. I mentioned to Shav that I thought the post was "pointless". However, I was rather alarmed at the sudden and rather vocal "racist" label that was thrown at someone who is probably just mentioning an ill thought out, flippant observation about his own experience. He MAY feel that all Israelis are bad but you can't, in my view, infer that from what he says.
We need to ask him more questions to find out.
He comes on to a public forum, actively singles out one particular nation, blurts out some very generalised derogatory remarks about it's people and then demands that they defend themselves. Not to mention that the fact that he's assuming everyone (non Israeli) agrees with him and is interested to hear their response to his opinion!
It's no wonder that people are responding with accusations of racism. Fair enough, that may not be what he intended but the fact still remains that his post reads like an advert for the BNP.
EDIT: And just for the record - Yes, there are a few people here that are a bit quick to call people racist, but there are also a few that are being ultra-PC and sitting on the fence far too much.
Originally posted by Daemon SinI don't think I'll continue with this because I keep saying the same thing over and over again which is getting a bit dull but here we go.
I fail to see how you can't infer that from his comments!
He comes on to a public forum, actively singles out one particular nation, blurts out some very generalised derogatory remarks about it's people and then demands that they defend themselves. Not to mention that the fact that he's assuming everyone (non Israeli) agrees with him and is interested ...[text shortened]... ist, but there are also a few that are being ultra-PC and sitting on the fence far too much.
He said all the Israelis HE HAD MET were not likeable. He did sort of infer that they must all be like the ones he has met which is a bit stupid (though not entirely illogical). He then asked someone to help him understand that they are not all like the ones he met. True he should guess that but it isn't wildly illogical to conclude what he has.
I am defending the guy so am hardly sitting on the fence. I am defending someone who you call a racist so I can't be being that PC either.
Is it only possible to have a discussion with someone if
a) we have been able to label them in a little box that we have already made our minds up about so we don't have to think about it again e.g. racist or PC
b) we don't have to bother to read what they said.