19 Feb 04
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http://islamveg.com/
The beautiful religion of Islam has always viewed animals as a special part of God's creation. The Qur'an, the Hadith, and the history of Islamic civilization offer many examples of kindness, mercy, and compassion for animals.
Thanks to Westernized factory-farming methods that are used in many parts of the world, animals suffer hideously in the industries that kill them to produce meat, milk, and eggs. These products not only bring pain and suffering to the animals themselves, they are also implicated in a variety of human diseases, including cancer, heart disease, obesity, high blood pressure, and diabetes. The intensive production of animals for food is also extremely damaging to the environment.
19 Feb 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeIt's too bad that militant muslims(and a lot of moderate Islamists)don't look at Christians as a special part of God's creation...the History of Islamic civilization offers many examples of subjugation from Indonesia to Spain....all under the sword! (yeah, I know about the crusades, so save your breath) Today the Wahabbis of Saudi Arabia preach death and intolerance to all non-Muslims (mercy?), the teachings of Osama bin $hithead preach death to ALL Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus. You athiests aren't left out either; you're at the top of his $hit list...oh, if you happen to be a camel you'll be treated with compassion and kindness as the Koran dictates...sorry, Ivanhoe, but I couldn't allow the other side of Islam to not be depicted. 😲
http://islamveg.com/
The beautiful religion of Islam has always viewed animals as a special part of God's creation. The Qur'an, the Hadith, and the history of Islamic civilization offer many examples of kindness, mercy, and compassion for animals.
Thanks to Westernized factory-farming methods that are used in many parts of the world, animals suffer ...[text shortened]... The intensive production of animals for food is also extremely damaging to the environment.
19 Feb 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeDo you ever make a post anymore that isn't preceeded by a link? I don't know about everyone else, but I don't have time to go hopping around the internet reading all the sites you've pointed out. As a consequence, I seldom pay much attention to your posts anymore (which you may consider to be a good thing). It seems to me that it's also a little bit lazy on your part. If you've got something to say, can't you summarize the source material in your own words instead of sending us hither and yon?
http://islamveg.com/
The beautiful religion of Islam has always viewed animals as a special part of God's creation. The Qur'an, the Hadith, and the history of Islamic civilization offer many examples of kindness, mercy, and compassion for animals.
Thanks to Westernized factory-farming methods that are used in many parts of the world, animals suffer ...[text shortened]... The intensive production of animals for food is also extremely damaging to the environment.
19 Feb 04
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettI'll see what I can do for you in future threads, rwingett.
Do you ever make a post anymore that isn't preceeded by a link? I don't know about everyone else, but I don't have time to go hopping around the internet reading all the sites you've pointed out. As a consequence, I seldom pay much att ...[text shortened]... e material in your own words instead of sending us hither and yon?
19 Feb 04
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Originally posted by chancremechanicI know that there are a lot of different Muslims on our beautiful planet. There are also a lot of different non-Muslims. I'm aware of the serious problems and difficulties created by the so called "Islamists", an ideology that abuses Islam the same way Christian faith has been abused in the past to promote and pursue political ideals and goals.
It's too bad that militant muslims(and a lot of moderate Islamists)don't look at Christians as a special part of God's creation...the History of Islamic civilization offers many examples of subjugation from Indonesia to Spain.... ...[text shortened]... t I couldn't allow the other side of Islam to not be depicted. 😲
There are people from left to right from the Western to the Eastern world who, because of their political agendas, do not wish to make a distinction between the abused and the abusers, between Islamic faith and the Islamists abusers, between Christian faith and Christian abusers.
We ought to seek cooperation with those people who hold moderate and constructive ideas and are also willing to cooperate with us. Islamists are our enemy, not the Islam faith. Christian extremists are our enemy, not the Christian faith.
We have to be vigilant of exactly who and what kind of ideologies are our enemies and who and what kinds of ideologies are our friends.
This thread should be regarded in that very perspective.
19 Feb 04
Originally posted by chancremechanicYou really are full of hate aren't you. What was done in New York was a terrible thing, but I think you need to distinguish between the terrorists and the millions of peace loving Muslims, who are just trying to make their way in the world like we are. Just because you don't understand the way someone thinks doesn't make them a bad person.
It's too bad that militant muslims(and a lot of moderate Islamists)don't look at Christians as a special part of God's creation...the History of Islamic civilization offers many examples of subjugation from Indonesia to Spain....all under the sword! (yeah, I know about the crusades, so save your breath) Today the Wahabbis of Saudi Arabia preach de ...[text shortened]... dictates...sorry, Ivanhoe, but I couldn't allow the other side of Islam to not be depicted. 😲
20 Feb 04
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Originally posted by chancremechanicSure islamic extremism, just like any extremism really, is a pretty unpleasant thing, but judging any group of people by their lunatic element is always going to be grossly unfair.
It's too bad that militant muslims(and a lot of moderate Islamists)don't look at Christians as a special part of God's creation...the History of Islamic civilization offers many examples of subjugation from Indonesia to Spain.... ...[text shortened]... t I couldn't allow the other side of Islam to not be depicted. 😲
I was in Jordan and Syria in September 2002, in the build up period to the Iraq war, and I have never, and I mean never, received such friendship and hospitality. I was offered cups of tea by people at the roadside, invited to a football match and generally nattered to. Now these people weren't great fans of the British government and they despised Bush, but they certainly weren't anti-Western in general. Clinton, for instance, was very popular.
So these people really aren't the bogeymen of modern myth. I find it really sad that comments which would once have been considered racist now seem to be acceptable.
Rich.
20 Feb 04
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Originally posted by ianpickeringConsidering that entire Non-Western societies are being held hostage by fundamentalism (Africa, Saudi arabia, SW Asia), I think you're the one who's being a little unfair. At this stage in history, the religion needs a fearless and blunt self-evaluation of how its tenets apply in modern society. Because, for the most part, large parts of the religion thrive on hatred of Jews, Western values, and just about everything that contradicts its doctrines and tenets.
You really are full of hate aren't you. What was done in New York was a terrible thing, but I think you need to distinguish between the terrorists and the millions of peace loving Muslims, who are just trying to make their way in the ...[text shortened]... ay someone thinks doesn't make them a bad person.
Considering the current state of affairs, I think its hard to argue that Islam is a "religion of peace" when so many occurences tell a much different story..
20 Feb 04
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Originally posted by ianpickeringYo, Ian..who the hell are you to tell me that I'm full of hate after your anti-American diatribe posts? Don't you think you're being hypocritical? There may be millions of peace-loving Muslims but there are also millions of Muslims who are silent about the actions of the militant Muslims and their anti-Infidel excursions. By the way, how does my simply telling the truth in my last post indicate that I'm full of hate? 🙄😲
You really are full of hate aren't you. What was done in New York was a terrible thing, but I think you need to distinguish between the terrorists and the millions of peace loving Muslims, who are just trying to make their way in the ...[text shortened]... derstand the way someone thinks doesn't make them a bad person.
20 Feb 04
Originally posted by beermaestroCould you explain exactly which countries are being held hostage by fundamentalism? I agree there are some, but it's certainly not all or even most of the non-Western world.
Considering that entire Non-Western societies are being held hostage by fundamentalism (Africa, Saudi arabia, SW Asia), I think you're the one who's being a little unfair. At this stage in history, the religion needs a fearless and blunt self-evaluation of how its tenets apply in modern society. Because, for the most part, large parts of the relig ...[text shortened]... rgue that Islam is a "religion of peace" when so many occurences tell a much different story..
As for "large parts of the religion thrive on hatred of the Jews..." the religion is not at all based on hatred of the Jews. So do you mean that large numbers of Muslims hate Jews? That's a different matter - it's because many Muslims feel, rightly or wrongly, that the whole of Israel belongs to the Palestinians, and most feel that the Palestinians are being opressed by the Israelis. These attitudes are hardly unique to Muslims, for example Northern Ireland is in a similar no-win situation as some people think it belongs to Ireland and others that it belongs to the UK.
For the record I do think that many Muslim countries have a problem with Islamic extremists. But this phenomenon is not a case of Islam failing to adapt to the modern world; it is in fact for the most part a reaction to and a product of the modern world (and particularly Israel and Palestine), and as such only started to gain popularity in the 20th century. Shouting 'Repent! Islam is evil!' at Muslims is hardly going to reverse this.
20 Feb 04
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Originally posted by Acolytei believe islam to be (like other religions) an overwhelmingly peaceful affair with a few loonies/criminals.
[b]As for "large parts of the religion thrive on hatred of the Jews..." the religion is not at all based on hatred of the Jews. b]
but my (flimsy) knowledge of islam involves something about Mohamed freeing a predominantly muslim town from the "jewish oppressors" by military force - a jihad. my understanding is that this was central to the formation of islam.
although this is not the same as a general hatred of jews, it would seem that the muslim : jewish tension is older than the affairs of last century, and is right at the roots of islam.
edit: i have just been googling around, and i think that there is a lot i do not know about mohamed's actions. it seems he disliked worship of many gods to the extreme, but empathised strongly with christian and jewish worship of a single god.
"Jews, for example, were part of the community; they were dhimmis, that is, protected people, as long as they conformed to its laws. This established a precedent for the treatment of subject peoples during the later conquests. Christians and Jews, upon payment of a yearly tax, were allowed religious freedom and, while maintaining their status as non-Muslims, were associate members of the Muslim state. This status did not apply to polytheists, who could not be tolerated within a community that worshipped the One God. "
some sites seem to report mohamed's army conquering mecca as a liberation, others as a pure conquest - sounds like something more recent !!!!
20 Feb 04
Originally posted by ivanhoewell said.
I know that there are a lot of different Muslims on our beautiful planet. There are also a lot of different non-Muslims. I'm aware of the serious problems and difficulties created by the so called "Islamists", an ideology that abuses Islam the same way Christian faith has been abused in the past to promote and pursue political ideals and goals.
There ...[text shortened]... of ideologies are our friends.
This thread should be regarded in that very perspective.
20 Feb 04
Originally posted by Acolyte
Could you explain exactly which countries are being held hostage by fundamentalism? I agree there are some, but it's certainly not all or even most of the non-Western world.
As for "large parts of the religion thrive on hatred of the Jews..." the religion is not at all based on hatred of the Jews. So do you mean that large numbers of Muslims hate ...[text shortened]... e 20th century. Shouting 'Repent! Islam is evil!' at Muslims is hardly going to reverse this.[/b]
Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan(still), Iran, Iraq(yes, Iraq), Egypt, , Nigeria, Sudan, Kenya, Pakistan, Indonesia, to name a few. These are places where:
1) Fundamentist Governments are the ruling faction, or threaten stability in their respective countries.
2) Rule of law is strongly, if not entirely influenced, by Islamic tenets.
3) Media is controlled, desseminated, and influenced by strict Islamic ideology.
I would say that constitutes no small portion of the Non-western world.
As for "large parts of the religion thrive on hatred of the Jews..." the religion is not at all based on hatred of the Jews. So do you mean that large numbers of Muslims hate Jews?
The Arab-Muslim world has been the purveyor of the most vicious Anti-Semitic propaganda since World War II. Who's responsible? And why do so many Muslims tolerate it within their societies? Muslims may not necessarily "hate Jews", but they are all too willing to look the other way when other, more radical factions, spew hatred.
But this phenomenon is not a case of Islam failing to adapt to the modern world; it is in fact for the most part a reaction to and a product of the modern world
I have little sympathy for a cause that is 1000 years behind the times. The other religions of the world have not had similar problems adapting to a modern world in a constant state of flux, so Islam should not be let off the hook.
Jihad is more than a word bandied about by extremists; its considered a collective responsibility to wage war against non-muslims until they convert or submit to second-class citizenship under Islamic law. This is something that Muslims have taken seriously for centuries, and it appears little has changed.
20 Feb 04
Originally posted by beermaestroSir, you seem to have confused ''certain Muslims'' with ''Islam''.
Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan(still), Iran, Iraq(yes, Iraq), Egypt, , Nigeria, Sudan, Kenya, Pakistan, Indonesia, to name a few. These are places where:
1) Fundamentist Governments are the ruling faction, or threaten stability in their respective countries.
2) Rule of law is strongly, if not entirely influenced, by Islamic tenets.
3) Media is cont ...[text shortened]... something that Muslims have taken seriously for centuries, and it appears little has changed.