Originally posted by chancremechanicBased on the current paranoia in the world today, C above has every right to be nervous...
Seems to me YOU have the short memory, among other things about you.....anyway, I said IF...IF...the scumbag was responsible....IF he had nothing to do with the subway bombings, then it would be a travesty of justice....what other post by me are you referring to? The one about racial profiling? Tell me, whom you would search for bombs on the subway? ...[text shortened]... if so, place your head between your legs in preparation of the next round of explosions....😲 🙄
The man shot dead by police was a Brazilian electrician. He had no connection whatsoever with the bombings, and lived and worked here legally. In response to killing an innocent the police have said that they may need to shoot more people to beat terrorism - presumably at random as if you shoot enough people one of them's bound to be a terrorist.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4712061.stm
This is not a policy that I think we should tolerate. Since the start of their shoot to kill policy (headshots are almost invariably fatal), which they now admit that they have, they have a 100% record of shooting innocent people dead.
What has saved most people's lives so far has been the work of the rescue and medical teams - and the staff at the BMA who are trained doctors who treated people at the scene of the bus bombing. What saved people from the second wave of bombers was them not knowing enough about how to use explosives. Had they been competent the security operation that COBRA has set in place wouldn't have saved anyone. Giving the police more powers hasn't helped, taking guns off them would have saved one life so far.
On a different issue; if searches are to be introduced on the underground then they should either be at random, or they should be of everyone - to select people on the grounds of race would be highly divisive and make the situation worse. Neither is particularly practical since a suicide bomber going off in the foyer of a station is only an improvement from the point of view of access for the rescue services.
I think most people are forgetting that this guy was being chased by policemen who were NOT in uniform.
Now imagine a foreigner in London with a bunch of plain clothes people chasing you with guns and shouting you to stop (and in a tongue that is not your native one, which you may even not understand).
It's only natural to run...
Edit: Just saw that Ragnorak mentioned this in the other thread...
Originally posted by Alcrawe are heading to "1984" style future anyway. maybe not as extreme at first. But ID cards, giving more power to police/government etc in order to give us more protection will lead to the inevitable.
To everyone who thinks that the police (and government) were justified in their actions, all I can say is read "1984" - that is the logical conclusion of unlimited power to "elected" officials.
The Policeman who shoots an innocent person carries that burden for the rest of his life. That fact doesn't console the family of the innocent but it is a fact.
I don't know about America but in Britain and most Commonwealth countries the law will judge the incident through the eyes of the cop as he or she saw it at the time.
Policemen are taught about reaction time. When a person has decided to shoot his brain sends the motors signals to the relevant muscles this gives the suspect an edge that the policeman can't beat. Therefore if a policeman wants to stay alive in a *"yes shoot scenario" ; he warns & gives clear instructions but shoots if the person fails to heed the warning or make sudden movements.
Having done that job for many years and having come very close to pulling the trigger (on thankfully only a few occassions) I can say; cops train and train under pressure situations but when it actually happens some go into a calm state and react well.. others get the shakes, breathe badly and don't react well. The majority are somewhere in between.
Cases I'm aware of include: one policeman who shot someone who was carrying what turned out to be a weight lifting bar but he turned too quickly when told to stop and drop. The cop made an error in perception but was completely blameless. I would have shot the guy given the same circumstances.
Other cases I know of from overseas are a deaf person shot while reaching for his wallet (Cops are trained about that case), pieces of wood and toy pistol cases gallore.
There are hundreds of cases where police and military have empty clips into suspects and when asked about it after said they only fired once or twice... shock sets in to that extent.
We were not at the policemens briefings. We were not behind the trigger. Let's not start calling each names and slagging each other like third rate American tv lawyers. #1 is excused because he is a third rate loud mouth U.S. court jockey and we're sort of used to his entertaining slaggings. I'm just glad he's not a judge.
(nb a yes shoot scenario is cover by several written instructions which police officers know..but cover circumstances in which a cop may use his weapon.)
Originally posted by Tirau Dan#1 is one of the few people here who have pointed out that we shouldn't judge the police before we know all the facts (and he has done so about 100 times, so it's not easy to miss). Maybe you should read what he writes instead of writing it off as slagging because it's from #1.
We were not at the policemens briefings. We were not behind the trigger. Let's not start calling each names and slagging each other like third rate American tv lawyers. #1 is excused because he is a third rate loud mouth U.S. court jockey and we're sort of used to his entertaining slaggings. I'm just glad he's not a judge.
Originally posted by NordlysI posted support earlier for that but feel he's gone overboard and felt it was pert here to pick him out for blaming the shootings on the Iraq war tensions and latterly resorting to name calling etc. He does talk like a worn out lawyer ..
#1 is one of the few people here who have pointed out that we shouldn't judge the police before we know all the facts (and he has done so about 100 times, so it's not easy to miss). Maybe you should read what he writes instead of writing it off as slagging because it's from #1.
The crux of the matter is that the British Police are doing a great job.. leave it at that...
Originally posted by Tirau Danat last - a voice of reason from someone who actually has experience 'behind the trigger'. very informative. this has my rec.
The Policeman who shoots an innocent person carries that burden for the rest of his life. That fact doesn't console the family of the innocent but it is a fact.
I don't know about America but in Britain and most Commonwealth countries the law will judge the incident through the eyes of the cop as he or she saw it at the time.
Policemen are taugh ...[text shortened]... ns which police officers know..but cover circumstances in which a cop may use his weapon.)
Originally posted by Tirau DanSo, your basic point is that despite rigorous training, police (humans) loose complete control when a situation arises where they need to pull the trigger. 24 shots becomes the same as 1. All concept of reality becomes suspended?
Other cases I know of from overseas are a deaf person shot while reaching for his wallet (Cops are trained about that case), pieces of wood and toy pistol cases gallore.
There are hundreds of cases where police and military have empty ...[text shortened]... id they only fired once or twice... shock sets in to that extent.
Reassuring. We need more armed police, with license to kill. It is obvious.
D