A man called Harry Stanley was shot dead by the police in Hackney a few years ago, he had a suspicious object in a carrier bag. It later turned out to be a table leg.OK - Lets imagine you are the armed policeman/person called to this incident.
Do you...
A) Shoot him, or
B) Wait and see if the guy IS carrying a shotgun & blows you away?
Bear in mind (if I remember correctly) this guy was brandishing the table leg in a gun-like fasion & making simular threats.
In my opinion, if you're foolish enough to act in such a manner in front of ARMED police, you deserve to get shot.
I think they call it suicide by cop in America don't they?
Originally posted by craigiebabyshoot him of course
OK - Lets imagine you are the armed policeman/person called to this incident.
Do you...
A) Shoot him, or
B) Wait and see if the guy IS carrying a shotgun & blows you away?
Bear in mind (if I remember correctly) this guy was brandishing the table leg in a gun-like fasion & making simular threats.
In my opinion, if you're foolish enough to act i ...[text shortened]... olice, you deserve to get shot.
I think they call it suicide by cop in America don't they?
Originally posted by craigiebabyThe man who was murdered in this case was drunk.
OK - Lets imagine you are the armed policeman/person called to this incident.
Do you...
A) Shoot him, or
B) Wait and see if the guy IS carrying a shotgun & blows you away?
Bear in mind (if I remember correctly) this guy was brandishing the table leg in a gun-like fasion & making simular threats.
In my opinion, if you're foolish enough to act i ...[text shortened]... olice, you deserve to get shot.
I think they call it suicide by cop in America don't they?
You'd think the police training would be good enough to spot that.
There are plenty of ways to shoot someone without killing them.
Originally posted by StarrmanOMG, don't bring L Ron Hubbard into it, he would have a ball for
And Battlefield Earth...
Nooooooooooooooooo!
sure!
The latest I heard is he was definitely part of the same gang and
not an innocent fare jumper. I think they shot him because they
thought maybe he was carrying bombs under his coat, he could
well have been. The cops were acting under the impulse of the
moment and didn't have time to clearly analyze the situation or
they might have just gone for his legs, he would have been a much
better resource alive than dead.
There are plenty of ways to shoot someone without killing them.[/b]Yes yes - exactly like it is in the films... you have to get shot at least 3 times before you die.
The shock from a single bullet wound can kill you - unless you live in Hollywood
dyl - The police didn't know it was a table leg - I dare say the situation was a little fraught.
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseThe police can't act under the impulse of the moment - they really should be able not to. There is no such thing as an honest mistake when you are using lethal force. They shot him at point blank range, he was on his back and already overpowered. Shooting at his legs doesn't come into it.
OMG, don't bring L Ron Hubbard into it, he would have a ball for
sure!
The latest I heard is he was definitely part of the same gang and
not an innocent fare jumper. I think they shot him because they
thought maybe he was carrying bo ...[text shortened]... legs, he would have been a much
better resource alive than dead.
Attempts to revive him at the scene failed, so he didn't die instantly, this means that, if it was a matter of pressing a button, he could still have done so after being shot. This really isn't looking like a neccessary shooting to me.
There is another point here we've been missing. All the bombers so far had their bombs in rucksacks. 50 lbs explosives is going to severely hamper an escape attempt, and this guy vaulted the ticket barriers.
But on the specific point of an attempt to shoot at the legs, it's a waste of time, you'll just miss, and maybe hit a bystander. If you are going to open fire you aim at the torso as you've got a much better chance of hitting the target that you intend to.
Originally posted by craigiebabyNone of the above. This is an armed response unit. They have kevlar body armour which is quite capable of stopping shotgun pellets at anything other than very close range. The police in the US have procedures for this type of thing. First you get the public out of the way so that he's deprived of targets, then you establish communication and then talk him/her out of it. You don't just open fire because they won't listen. In the US they've managed to arrest - alive - without shooting them once - people who had fully automatic assault rifles who'd already started shooting. You are looking at the very last frame of the action without considering what they could have done differently in the build up. Identifying weapons is part of the training.
OK - Lets imagine you are the armed policeman/person called to this incident.
Do you...
A) Shoot him, or
B) Wait and see if the guy IS carrying a shotgun & blows you away?
Bear in mind (if I remember correctly) this guy was brandishing the table leg in a gun-like fasion & making simular threats.
In my opinion, if you're foolish enough to act i ...[text shortened]... olice, you deserve to get shot.
I think they call it suicide by cop in America don't they?
"Suicide by law enforcement officer" is something different. That is where you intend to commit suicide and cause a policeman to kill you by deliberately putting them in a situation where they have to open fire.
Originally posted by craigiebabyWe're talking about supposedly well-trained police officers shooting a pissed guy with a table leg. Twice, once in the head.
Yes yes - exactly like it is in the films... you have to get shot at least 3 times before you die.
The shock from a single bullet wound can kill you - unless you live in Hollywood
dyl - The police didn't know it was a table leg - I dare say the situation was a little fraught.
Murderers.
Originally posted by RedmikeYou're entitled to your opinion. I'd have more respect for it if you could explain to me exactly what it's like to be in such a situation. Add into the mix that many violent crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol.
We're talking about supposedly well-trained police officers shooting a pissed guy with a table leg. Twice, once in the head.
Murderers.
Calling someone who is dealing with that situation a 'murderer' seems a little harsh.
Originally posted by ivangriceI don't know what its like to me in that sort of situation, because that's not my job.
You're entitled to your opinion. I'd have more respect for it if you could explain to me exactly what it's like to be in such a situation. Add into the mix that many violent crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol.
Calling someone who is dealing with that situation a 'murderer' seems a little harsh.
We pay these people to be able to handle these kind of situations. They're supposed to be highly trained. The officers in this case clearly got it badly wrong.
Sure, lots of violent crime is committed due to alcohol. But I'd say that it makes you a lot less of a threat with a gun. Even less with a table leg.
If you or I shot and killed someone, it would be murder, even if we thought they were a threat. Just because they've got a badge doesn't change that.
Originally posted by Redmikeunfortunately it does change things if you have a badge. You are given permission to kill. serve to protect . so they will get us to give them increased power as means of "protecting" us, which will in turn lead to us sacrificing part of our freedom. That is a big price to pay. But what can you do when war is brought to your country?
I don't know what its like to me in that sort of situation, because that's not my job.
We pay these people to be able to handle these kind of situations. They're supposed to be highly trained. The officers in this case clearly got it badly wrong.
Sure, lots of violent crime is committed due to alcohol. But I'd say that it makes you a lot less of a th ...[text shortened]... , even if we thought they were a threat. Just because they've got a badge doesn't change that.
I don't know what its like to me in that sort of situation, because that's not my job.
Looks like we're getting somewhere.
We pay these people to be able to handle these kind of situations. They're supposed to be highly trained. The officers in this case clearly got it badly wrong.
I don't agree with the 'clearly'. You weren't there.
Sure, lots of violent crime is committed due to alcohol. But I'd say that it makes you a lot less of a threat with a gun. Even less with a table leg.
Why? Do bullets fired by a drunk not kill you if they hit you?
If you or I shot and killed someone, it would be murder, even if we thought they were a threat. Just because they've got a badge doesn't change that.
Your last statement is patently false. What if we were in a war. What if it were self-defence? What if it were an accident? What if...
Sloppy, very sloppy.