What was it all about in Haiti ? Was it indeed a military coup or was there something else going on ? What are the reasons for this military coup, if it was one ?
The Secretary of State Colin Powell called upon President Aristide to step down, so did the French President. Later Colin Powell called Haiti under Aristides leadership a "flawed democracy". What did he mean by that, and what's more important who's going to decide whether Aristide's government is indeed flawed, the US and France or the people of Haiti through means of elections ? What's the fuzz about whether or not President Aristide was forced to leave the country ? There are reports that he was being abducted. The Secretary of State declares Aristide left the country out of free will. Aristide claims he was forced out. Many questions .......
What are your thoughts on this matter ?
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Originally posted by ivanhoeAnother crooked government in an country that is the bastard child of the Western Hemisphere. Long line of murderous dictators that have plagued the country since the beginning of time. The US helped put Aristide in power in 95 and now he whines that we kidnapped him. Why not blame the US everyone else does. I was wondering when a post would show up concerning this mess. I guess since it was Clinton's and not Bush's mess the Ianpickerings, steerpikes and US bashers of the world did'nt deem it newsworthy. I just hope the new leader is better, but I doubt it. Poor people of Haiti.😳
What was it all about in Haiti ? Was it indeed a military coup or was there something else going on ? What are the reasons for this military coup, if it was one ?
The Secretary of State Colin Powell called upon President Aristide to step down, so did the French President. Later Colin Powell called Haiti under Aristides leadership a "flawed democracy". W ...[text shortened]... laims he was forced out. Many questions .......
What are your thoughts on this matter ?
.
Originally posted by slimjimThere are numerous inconsistencies in your post. I don't know the situation itself, but the lines I've taken from your post basically say that the US jelped put a murderous dictator in power and now by saying, 'Why not blame the US everyone else does' are denying responsibility.
Long line of murderous dictators that have plagued the country since the beginning of time. The US helped put Aristide in power in 95 and now he whines that we kidnapped him. Why not blame the US everyone else does.
I don't know if America are responsible, you certainly imply it in your post, but to then go on the offensive shows a degree of guilt.
However I must agree with you, poor people of that nation in turmoil.
Originally posted by slimjimI've repatriated Haitians back to Port Au prince after we found them nearly sinking at sea...Haiti is the bowels of the Western Hemisphere due to illiteracy (80😵, crooked/greedy politicians, overpopulation, AIDS, etc...
Another crooked government in an country that is the bastard child of the Western Hemisphere. Long line of murderous dictators that have plagued the country since the beginning of time. The US helped put Aristide in power in 95 and now he w ...[text shortened]... the new leader is better, but I doubt it. Poor people of Haiti.😳
The Dominican Republic, a country that borders Haiti, has an illiteracy rate of only 20% but is not that much better off. The point is the education system is a failure therefore other countries don't want to invest capital and factories to a people that can barely read and is very efficient at procreating which averages 5-6 children per mother...totally ignorant. If I couldn't afford to feed myself much less a child, I think I would forego the thought of bringing children into such a hell-hole as Haiti...but they keep having kid after kid after kid...what needs to happen is that old MLK saying: "they need to pull themselves up by their boot straps", each and every citizen in Haiti. But just as in Africa, they will fail and other countries (U..S..A) will come to their aid...OK, France is there too...but as a former French colony, they need to be there...my opinion only...
which averages 5-6 children per mother...If I couldn't afford to feed myself much less a child, I think I would forego the thought of bringing children into such a hell-hole as Haiti...but they keep having kid after kid after kidIs it not because, just as in Africa, the social 'system; is different from the West. In the west the (very) basic norm you have 1.8 children, they grow and move out and then retire on your pension. Instead, as used to be true in Europe, Haitians have as many children as they can possibly support, these children have a high chance of dying but those that survive are your security when you're old as they'll look after you.
I'm not saying their system is a good one, but at least it has rational above "they keep churning out kids because they are stupid/sex mad/ignorant"
nb. if I lived in such a 'hell hole' and the US (or any western country) was a short boat ride away I'd probably risk my life to get there. Wouldn't you?
Originally posted by garyminfordYes I blame the US for putting Aristide in power. Just like half of dozen more I could name off. But at least I admit it when my country messes up. What I can't put up with is when I read a post from some holier than thou bashing the US when his own country's hands are dirty. The US isn't perfect but I've had the opportunity to visit many countries in the world and while not perfect I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
There are numerous inconsistencies in your post. I don't know the situation itself, but the lines I've taken from your post basically say that the US jelped put a murderous dictator in power and now by saying, 'Why not blame the US everyone else does' are denying responsibility.
I don't know if America are responsible, you certainly imply it in yo ...[text shortened]... shows a degree of guilt.
However I must agree with you, poor people of that nation in turmoil.
I don't think the problem was putting A. in power.
The problem is basically that every request for financial help was turned down.
Turned down by the World bank and the IMF.
If you take a closer look at the reasoning, you will find the US did not want Haiti helped. They did not want a central-left government in control (One of the reaons they would not step in until A. had left).
They did not want the IMF helping Hiati out.
I find myself pondering why the US would care what sort of government is in place in a third world Carribbean nation.
Well, and at the risk of sounding paranoid, United Fruits doesn't want a central-left wing government in power. Especially one that doesn't want United Fruits dictating to them what they should produce and how much the workers should be paid.
United Fruits is one of the major financial backers of the Republican party. And the Democratic party.
How very smart.
Obviously I'm just speculating, I couldn't prove one word of what I'm uttering 😉
Originally posted by belgianfreakBut then are we in the west wrong to feel sad that these children are dying? Isn't that their natural lot?
Is it not because, just as in Africa, the social 'system; is different from the West. In the west the (very) basic norm you have 1.8 children, they grow and move out and then retire on your pension. Instead, as used to be true in Europe, Haitians have as many children as they can possibly support, these children have a high chance of dying but those that survive are your security when you're old as they'll look after you.
Much like in Victorian times in England, people had large families, huge numbers of children died of tuberculosis, typhus, etc. Sure it was sad, but that's why you had loads of kids.
Originally posted by slimjimI'd love you to start critisizing Britain (if you can think of anything) - bring it on!!
Yes I blame the US for putting Aristide in power. Just like half of dozen more I could name off. But at least I admit it when my country messes up. What I can't put up with is when I read a post from some holier than thou bashing the US when his own country's hands are dirty. The US isn't perfect but I've had the opportunity to visit many countries in the world and while not perfect I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
This is to shavixmir. Do you know what contry gives the most money to other contries? I would probly bet that its the US. Another question. If we put A. in power why would we not support him?(this 1 is to anyone)
Plz i would like to hear your respons to these questions. I would also like to try to answer some of your other questions at another time.
Thank You,
Mst.ofDestruction
Originally posted by MstofDestruction2In terms of the percentage of GNP given as foreign aid the US record is woeful. See the stats below. UN target is 0.7 % and US current spend is a mere 0.1 %
This is to shavixmir. Do you know what contry gives the most money to other contries? I would probly bet that its the US. Another question. If we put A. in power why would we not support him?(this 1 is to anyone)
Plz i would like to hear your respons to these questions. I would also like to try to answer some of your other questions at another time.
Thank You,
Mst.ofDestruction
Official Development Assistance (ODA) from 1999 to 2002
Select column heading that are links to change sort order
ODA in U.S. Dollars (Millions) ODA as GNP Percentage
Country 1999 2000 2001 2002 1999 2000 2001 2002
1. Denmark 1,733 1,664 1,599 1,632 1.01 1.06 1.01 0.96
2. Norway 1,370 1,264 1,346 1,746 0.91 0.8 0.83 0.91
3. Netherlands 3,134 3,075 3,155 3,377 0.79 0.82 0.82 0.82
4. Luxembourg 119 116 142 143 0.66 0.7 0.8 0.78
5. Sweden 1,630 1,813 1,576 1,754 0.7 0.81 0.76 0.74
6. Belgium 760 812 866 1,061 0.3 0.36 0.37 0.42
7. Ireland 245 239 285 397 0.31 0.3 0.33 0.41
8. France 5,637 4,221 4,293 5,182 0.39 0.33 0.34 0.36
9. Finland 416 371 389 466 0.33 0.31 0.33 0.35
10. Switzerland 969 888 908 933 0.35 0.34 0.34 0.32
11. United Kingdom 3,401 4,458 4,659 4,749 0.23 0.31 0.32 0.3
12. Canada 1,699 1,722 1,572 2,013 0.28 0.25 0.23 0.28
13. Germany 5,515 5,034 4,879 5,359 0.26 0.27 0.27 0.27
14. Spain 1,363 1,321 1,748 1,608 0.23 0.24 0.3 0.25
15. Australia 982 995 852 962 0.26 0.27 0.25 0.25
16. Portugal 276 261 267 282 0.26 0.26 0.25 0.24
17. New Zealand 134 116 111 124 0.27 0.26 0.25 0.23
18. Japan 15,323 13,062 9,678 9,220 0.35 0.27 0.23 0.23
19. Austria 527 461 457 475 0.26 0.25 0.25 0.23
20. Greece 194 216 194 295 0.15 0.19 0.19 0.22
21. Italy 1,806 1,368 1,493 2,313 0.15 0.13 0.14 0.2
22. United States 9,145 9,581 10,884 12,900 0.1 0.1 0.11 0.12
Source: OECD Web site
Note: The U.N. ODA agreed target is 0.7 percent of GNP. Most nations do not meet that target.
Originally posted by ianpickeringI'm not going to dispute your figures as they are nothing new. A couple of points. This country supplies a lot more aid than just through government programs. There are many private organizations as well as church groups that provide aid. Secondly, the US , despite a record of exploiting countries, also creates wealth by exporting jobs and opportunities to many countries. Both of these things need to be added to your statistics.
In terms of the percentage of GNP given as foreign aid the US record is woeful. See the stats below. UN target is 0.7 % and US current spend is a mere 0.1 %
Originally posted by kirksey957Kirk: " the US ........ also creates wealth by exporting jobs and opportunities to many countries."
I'm not going to dispute your figures as they are nothing new. A couple of points. This country supplies a lot more aid than just through government programs. There are many private organizations as well as church groups that provide aid. Secondly, the US , despite a record of exploiting countries, also creates wealth by exporting jobs and opportunities to many countries. Both of these things need to be added to your statistics.
Kirk, you should join Bush's re-election campaign. They will welcome you with open arms 😵