The thread on animal experiments diverged a bit into money. I have had a weird thought about money, so i thought i would toss out a mind experiment to discover why we have invented money and economics. In this experiment lets assume that our experimental world instantly contains no such thing as money and our memory of it is destroyed. Everyone on earth remembers everything about their lives except monetary concepts. All cash registers and credit cards disappear instantly. Everybody gets up on this first magic day and goes about their lives. The cab driver drives his cab, he just doesn't collect money. The grocer stocks his shelves and bags food all day long. The delivery drivers offload groceries to the grocer. The service station <petrol to UK'ers> pumps gas and the refinery refines.
Question: Why do we have money? The perfect world could work just fine without it. I have thought about it quite a bit and I think the answer is complex. I here propose that the Main Reason is that it is a tool to drag the MASSES <defined as "those not in charge of others"> along in the drudgery of life. If you think about the imaginary world described above, it would fail about 6 hours into the first day when those necessary drudge workers realized they couldn't remember why they were drudging along. They leave work, fill their auto with gas, pick up a six pack of beer and play Chess for the rest of their lives on RHP! The happy worker... say an artist or a scientist who loves her work is quite happy to just do her job and pick up supper on the way home, just as always. My vote for the primary purpose of money thus becomes... Money is the tool used to ASSURE NECESSARY DRUDGE WORK GETS DONE. Nobody hates to be in charge. This also explains why socialism is so popular. We may have to do this crappy work, but only for a legally defined stretch of time each day, and under terms negotiated with the government; in return i get medical and education. Highly simplified, but the basic idea is there to be examined. Money is a mystery to me. I have never had much, but i've had enough. I have never had a boss but only worked for myself and my family. If i don't like what i am doing on any particular day, i do something else. Anyone else as mystified by money as i am?
Originally posted by StarValleyWyIt's basic human nature - if we aren't rewarded for doing something we won't do it. That reward doesn't have to be money eg. cleaning your car gives you a nice shiny car as a reward. If cleaning your car left it exactly the same we wouldn't do it.
The thread on animal experiments diverged a bit into money. I have had a weird thought about money, so i thought i would toss out a mind experiment to discover why we have invented money and economics. In this experiment lets assume that our experimental world instantly contains no such thing as money and our memory of it is destroyed. Everyone on earth ...[text shortened]... m doing on any particular day, i do something else. Anyone else as mystified by money as i am?
Money = a token for how much time we have spent working * the "usefullness" of that work to our employer (not entirely accurate I know, but a basic start). Without
You are right that some people like their jobs & would work anyway, but I think you are wrong to list these people as artists & scientists as this suggests an intelectual elite, whereas a shopkeeper (I know, it's not a simple job) might enjoy his work as much. & I can tell you that I wouldn't work as hard or as many hours if there wasn't something to gain, and although it's not everything money is a part of it, and there'd be plenty of days that I wouldn't go to work at all.
Without money I wouldn't have got my furniture from IKEA, I would have wanted the antique mahogany stuff. Money provides boundries as to what we can and can have. Fair division of the money & hence the proportion of stuff we can have is another topic entirely.
Very disjointed argument I know - I'm getting tired. Short answer, we need money as a way of linking work we do to stuff we can have. Without this link we won't do the work, or at best we won't work anywhere near as hard.
Originally posted by belgianfreaki totaly agree with belgianfreak,
It's basic human nature - if we aren't rewarded for doing something we won't do it. That reward doesn't have to be money eg. cleaning your car gives you a nice shiny car as a reward. If cleaning your car left it exactly the same we wouldn't do it.
Money = a token for how much time we have spent working * the "usefullness" of that work to our ...[text shortened]... have. Without this link we won't do the work, or at best we won't work anywhere near as hard.
money is a form of control, it rewards us for working, so we work, and it controls what we can own, otherwise we would try and hord loads of quality stuff and the country would collapse.
so money is good, but like animal testing, it is not perfect/"green" there are fledgling alternatives out there but they dont yet address all the issues that a monitary system was designed to fill
Originally posted by belgianfreakGood point on washing the car. Plus the better our car looks, the higher our prestige. We are judged on appearances. (2)You are also correct in bagging my snobery ie, "artists and scientists". I have always admired them, so i didn't think it through. I framed houses for 25 years so i don't have any reason to think in those terms.(3) your point about getting more and better stuff is interesting. have to think about it for a while, but my initial reaction is that "more and better" improve us in society and makes us "one of the leaders of others" which goes back to my statement "Nobody hates to be in charge". (5) as near as i can tell this is in total agreement with my assertion that money is the tool used to drag the masses along in the world.
It's basic human nature - if we aren't rewarded for doing something we won't do it. That reward doesn't have to be money eg. cleaning your car gives you a nice shiny car as a reward. If cleaning your car left it exactly the same we wouldn't do it.
Money = a token for how much time we have spent working * the "usefullness" of that work to our ...[text shortened]... have. Without this link we won't do the work, or at best we won't work anywhere near as hard.
They don't use money on Star Trek (yes I know it's fictional 🙂, but how do they propose that works?
I've often wondered why people work on ST when they don't have to.
I know several people who have never worked in their lives (nearing 30yrs!) and certainly more wouldn't if everything was provided.
I suppose it would be communism if everybody worked, nobody got paid, but everybody got provided with everything they need.
But that doesn't allow for luxuries, and if luxuries were provided on demand everybody would grab as much as they could get.
Originally posted by Vargthere are other rewards, i think starwars uses socio-comunism, like comunism but with more provided in the way of luxury, and they live for self improvemnet rather than money
They don't use money on Star Trek (yes I know it's fictional 🙂, but how do they propose that works?
I've often wondered why people work on ST when they don't have to.
I know several people who have never worked in their lives (nearing 30yrs!) and certainly more wouldn't if everything was provided.
I suppose it would be communism if everybody worked, no ...[text shortened]... uxuries, and if luxuries were provided on demand everybody would grab as much as they could get.
Originally posted by VargThey work there because they can get almost anything they whant insantly by there 'Makeing things out of thin air thing' LOL I dont remeber the name.😀
They don't use money on Star Trek (yes I know it's fictional 🙂, but how do they propose that works?
I've often wondered why people work on ST when they don't have to.
I know several people who have never worked in their lives (nearing 3 ...[text shortened]... provided on demand everybody would grab as much as they could get.
Originally posted by VargExcellent point! I have been a trekkie for years and didn't even notice their lack of money. <upon thinking about this, it could also be why i can't stand "Deep Space Nine" and their constant bickering over "Latinum" whatever that is> In Star Trek... could it be that the "matter converters" are the ultimate solver of social ills? Have to think about that and also where the cost of all that energy to create matter comes from. Energy to matter conversion (would be) inversely expensive; requires gobs of energy expense just to make a single meal. Or maybe machines and tech have removed all drudge work?
They don't use money on Star Trek (yes I know it's fictional 🙂, but how do they propose that works?
I've often wondered why people work on ST when they don't have to.
I know several people who have never worked in their lives (nearing 30yrs!) and certainly more wouldn't if everything was provided.
I suppose it would be communism if everybody worked, no ...[text shortened]... uxuries, and if luxuries were provided on demand everybody would grab as much as they could get.
