after finishing the Hit King's book: MY Prison Without Bars....i have learned to love this man...he had the work ethic that has never been seen in any sport and had the hustle to break and now hold about 17 major league records, his most memorable is the all time leader in hits....you cannot keep someone like that out of the hall of fame can you???....i wasnt able to watch him play but from what i hear he is one of the most relentless SOB's that ever played the game....the man bet on baseball and has paid his dues....anyone else feel pete rose must be reinstated to baseball?
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Originally posted by TDR1He was quite the ballplayer, always hustling. If he drew a walk, he would run to first base. I think he might have been the forerunner of the head first slide. Pete, I'm sure is a fairly miserable character but so were greats like Ty Cobb. Many have done as bad or worse than Pete, I hope they put him in the Hall one day but I dont know if they will.
after finishing the Hit King's book: MY Prison Without Bars....i have learned to love this man...he had the work ethic that has never been seen in any sport and had the hustle to break and now hold about 17 major league records, his most memorable is the all time leader in hits....you cannot keep someone like that out of the hall of fame can you???....i wasnt ...[text shortened]... on baseball and has paid his dues....anyone else feel pete rose must be reinstated to baseball?
In my opinion. Rose should be admitted to the Hall of Fame but not reinstated into baseball. Betting on games is a pretty serious infraction and Rose knew this so I don't think he should be able to work in baseball again. On the other hand, the Hall of Fame (with pressure from MLB) changed their rules AFTER Rose was suspended to bar anybody who was on the lifetime suspension list from getting into the Hall of Fame; at the time of Rose's initial suspension there was no such rule.
Even if he was ruled eligible for the Hall of Fame, it's not certain he would get in despite his undeniable on-field accomplishments. He would have to receive 75% of the writers ballots and many of them have said they wouldn't vote for Rose under any circumstances. So despite being the all time hit leader and one of the greatest players of our era, it is entirely possible that Rose will never get in the Hall of Fame.
even shoeless joe jackson is in the hall of fame, not for what he accomplished but for throwing the world series, perhaps the same will hold true for pete rose. what about Sammy Sosa...He is without a question a future hall of famer but broke the rules by using a corked baseball bat, should he be banned, or at least have an asterix by his name if he breaks any records. Should Macguire have an asterix by his name saying he used performance enhancers during his 70 home run year??? just some thoughts. Admiting to what he did was the first step, I just think Bud Selig is stubborn as well as the writers. But voters change and so do commisoners.
Originally posted by deathbypawnyou make a good point about the commisioner. they hated each other and while he is iin power, Rose will never be in the hall. ill give it 5 years after the comissioner steps down until rose finally gets admitted
even shoeless joe jackson is in the hall of fame, not for what he accomplished but for throwing the world series, perhaps the same will hold true for pete rose. what about Sammy Sosa...He is without a question a future hall of famer but broke the rules by using a corked baseball bat, should he be banned, or at least have an asterix by his name if he brea ...[text shortened]... ust think Bud Selig is stubborn as well as the writers. But voters change and so do commisoners.
Originally posted by deathbypawnI agree with most of what you said, but for the record Shoeless Joe Jackson is NOT in the Hall of Fame. However, Jackson did not bet on baseball; he agreed and was paid money to throw the World Series! He apparently stiffed the gamblers (he batted .375 in the Series) but others did throw the Series and he also agreed and was paid to do so. To me, that's a far greater offense than merely having a manager bet on baseball.
even shoeless joe jackson is in the hall of fame, not for what he accomplished but for throwing the world series, perhaps the same will hold true for pete rose. what about Sammy Sosa...He is without a question a future hall of famer but broke the rules by using a corked baseball bat, should he be banned, or at least have an asterix by his name if he brea ...[text shortened]... ust think Bud Selig is stubborn as well as the writers. But voters change and so do commisoners.
Originally posted by deathbypawnOne would hope that Rose's gambling as a manager would be an asterisk to his accomplishments as a player if and when he gets in the Hall of fame.
my point was the incident is logged in the hall of fame and therefore by default joe jackson is in this could be the way rose gts in the hall will chronicle his gambling???
Everything you write about Rose is correct. He was an amazing player. He also broke the rules - knowing full well what the rules were and that he was breaking them at the time. Do I think this should be forgiven? Actually, no. Can we appreciate him for his talent? Yes, and we should, but I don't think we should reward him. Did he not take years and years before he actually admitted to his gambling on games? And isn't there still "concern" that he gambled while playing?
My two cents, you did the crime - you pay the price.
Originally posted by TDR1
ok turtlex lets say "The Pete Rose Rule", which is the rule sayin that anyone permanently banded from baseball cant be in the hall of fame...lets say that wasnt there...do you think he should not be reinstated but just in the hall of fame??
No, sorry. I think he sullied the game and thats it. For me, its sort of black and white. He made his bed. I don't think he should be allowed back in baseball, and I don't think he should be in the Hall Of Fame.
Is Shoeless Joe Jackson in the Hall of Fame? I don't think so. I've heard say he was the best. Should he be allowed in the HoF?
Originally posted by deathbypawnWhen I first moved to the US, I became a big baseball fan because I love statistics and nearly everything about baseball is quantified (though, as with the save rule, perhaps ridiculously). I love memorizing numbers for some crazy reason (maybe it's an asian thing). Pete Rose should certainly be in the hall of fame but prohibited (as previous posters suggested) from baseball events and such. His transgressions had no effect on his baseball accomplishments, the only reason someone should/should not be in the Hall. I mean, hey, if Hitler had come over in '45 and had a few .400 seasons, I'd vote to put him in. 🙂 (note: this is a joke, no Hitler debate need start!) However, Selig seems to be very personally involved in this decision to keep him out because of his dislike of Rose and doesn't want to be seen backing down.
The all time hit king will be in the hall of fame, the question is will he still be alive. The hit record will never be broken, neither will nolan ryans strikeout record. or cy youngs wins.
However, my main point here is to talk about deathbypawn's statement. Very interesting. However, and this is debatable, Rose's hit record, Ryan's strikeout record COULD maybe, POSSIBLY (though unlikely) be broken by an extraordinary player; yet, the way modern baseball is played, Cy Young's wins record is the only one we could be nearly %100 percent certain will never be broken. Also unlikely any one will ever match his loss record!
Sarah
Originally posted by turtlexBUT Joe Jackson's actions had a possible effect on his performance on the field. Yes, he hit .375 or so in the World Series that year, but were those hits when there were no runners on base, when there was no danger it would lose a game? We don't know. Maybe he could have hit .420 and won a game or two. We don't know. Pete Rose has never been accused of changing his on-the-field behavior because of betting. And, as I understand it, he never bet on Red's games, thus no reason to think it changed him as a manager.
Is Shoeless Joe Jackson in the Hall of Fame? I don't think so. I've heard say he was the best. Should he be allowed in the HoF?