General
13 Mar 21
Just catching up on the police mismanagement of this vigil on Clapham Common, London. Very disappointing by our usually even handed police officers, and especially considering the tragic circumstances and that the perpetrator was a serving police officer!
https://news.sky.com/story/arrests-as-police-clash-with-crowds-at-cancelled-vigil-for-sarah-everard-12245344
@divegeester saidListening to the radio blurb, turns out, it wasn't supposed to have happened. Met said no. No you can't it's against the Law.
Just catching up on the police mismanagement of this vigil on Clapham Common, London. Very disappointing by our usually even handed police officers, and especially considering the tragic circumstances and that the perpetrator was a serving police officer!
https://news.sky.com/story/arrests-as-police-clash-with-crowds-at-cancelled-vigil-for-sarah-everard-12245344
Yet more WOKE🤦♂️😑
@divegeester
The police have been given an impossible task from the start of this pandemic. They’ve been told to deal with crowds and fine people who don’t abide by the current restrictions be that a midnight rave or party or crowds flocking to the beach etc. The government could have given the service guidance in telling them that they should NOT intervene in this protest. They were made aware of the plans well before it took place. The police like social workers perform an unenviable, thankless job. Managing a huge crowd of people must be fraught with unexpected situations. I couldn’t do it.
14 Mar 21
@drewnogal saidLack of leadership is definitely an issue. People also have to make good decisions within the crises created by the lack of leadership, but I totally agree that their jobs are hard enough even without this lack of direction.
@divegeester
The police have been given an impossible task from the start of this pandemic. They’ve been told to deal with crowds and fine people who don’t abide by the current restrictions be that a midnight rave or party or crowds flocking to the beach etc. The government could have given the service guidance in telling them that they should NOT intervene in this prote ...[text shortened]... s job. Managing a huge crowd of people must be fraught with unexpected situations. I couldn’t do it.
It confuses me when I see how busy the beaches are on the Wirral. You can't organise a formal event to invite the public to volunteer and clean up all the rubbish left on the beach afterwards due to COVID restrictions, but people are clearly socialising on the beach in large groups, content in the knowledge that nothing is being enforced. Yet it gets enforced at a vigil?!?
As a slight tangent I might cynically add that people seem to have more free days to congregate on the beach with working from home, but I couldn't back that up with evidence.
14 Mar 21
1 edit
@hells-caretaker saidIt’s not as clean a cut situation as what you are describing. The police are there to uphold the law and in that respect they were quite right in their actions.
Listening to the radio blurb, turns out, it wasn't supposed to have happened. Met said no. No you can't it's against the Law.
Yet more WOKE🤦♂️😑
However, the politically, socially and emotionally charged nature of this vigil should have warranted a senior level police intervention, negotiation and outcome in which the vigil was permitted under certain circumstances.
As Pete said, what about the beaches etc. It was just handled very very poorly and “it’s the law” doesn’t get close to covering it. Dialogue was required.
14 Mar 21
@divegeester saidI was under (the radio) impression the Met had a chat with the Organisers even the parents of the murdered woman didn't want this vigil to be held but during the vigil a load of nutters turned up, to make a pigs breakfast out of it all. Riot Police or TAG as they are known are very unforgiving.
It’s not as clean a cut situation as what you are describing. The police are there to uphold the law and in that respect they were quite right in their actions.
However, the politically, socially and emotionally charged nature of this vigil should have warranted a senior level police intervention, negotiation and outcome in which the vigil was permitted under certain ...[text shortened]... handled very very poorly and “it’s the law” doesn’t get close to covering it. Dialogue was required.
I suppose in retrospect this was always gonna kick off
14 Mar 21
Authority will never be respected when there are massive inconsistencies. If you don't enforce the guidance regarding non-sensitive public gatherings you are always going to be open to criticism when you say the guidance caused you to break up a sensitive situation. You have to be completely transparent about why you actually decided to act.
14 Mar 21
1 edit
@hells-caretaker saidI edited out of my last post that I suspected (with no evidence) that the event may have been hijacked by certain, let’s call them “types”. Atypical of divegeester I decided to restrain myself.
I was under (the radio) impression the Met had a chat with the Organisers even the parents of the murdered woman didn't want this vigil to be held but during the vigil a load of nutters turned up, to make a pigs breakfast out of it all. Riot Police or TAG as they are known are very unforgiving.
I suppose in retrospect this was always gonna kick off
Nevertheless if what you say is true, there was extreme naivety by the police at the very least and a huge fuk up ensued.
I have great respect for the UK police service, but sometimes the senior bods just go to sleep.
14 Mar 21
@relentless-red saidYes, and for sure, that is what makes it "touchy".
Authority will never be respected when there are massive inconsistencies. If you don't enforce the guidance regarding non-sensitive public gatherings you are always going to be open to criticism when you say the guidance caused you to break up a sensitive situation. You have to be completely transparent about why you actually decided to act.
Tough call, but I think I have to break with tradition (for me, conservative) and back their right to protest.
15 Mar 21
@divegeester saidAny ideas on how it could have been handled more sensitively? As nightfall approached they were asked to disperse, the vigil having gone on peacefully for hours earlier through the day with even a member of the royal family managing to attend safely. Some of the women near the central bandstand who refused to move were put to the ground to be handcuffed then moved away from the area. Why didn’t they just accept it was time to go home when asked?
I edited out of my last post that I suspected (with no evidence) that the event may have been hijacked by certain, let’s call them “types”. Atypical of divegeester I decided to restrain myself.
Nevertheless if what you say is true, there was extreme naivety by the police at the very least and a huge fuk up ensued.
I have great respect for the UK police service, but sometimes the senior bods just go to sleep.
15 Mar 21
@drewnogal saidI suppose if you're going to use force you have to ask what would happen if you don't act. In this instance they might have just remained there for the night or until they became cold or maybe slipped away of their own accord if no media interest was gained. I can't see the harm in any of those outcomes to justify the force which in fact increased their media exposure. If bad decisions are taken it decreases the trust in authority and creates tension by increasing negativity about the police. In my head that means that senior police have let down their front line workers who already have a very hard job.
Any ideas on how it could have been handled more sensitively? As nightfall approached they were asked to disperse, the vigil having gone on peacefully for hours earlier through the day with even a member of the royal family managing to attend safely. Some of the women near the central bandstand who refused to move were put to the ground to be handcuffed then moved away from the area. Why didn’t they just accept it was time to go home when asked?
15 Mar 21
@drewnogal saidYou and I are usually on the opposite sides of this type of discussion, I.e. I’m usually railing on about discipline and rules and you are usually the voice of moderation. Not that you aren’t being moderate now I suppose.
Any ideas on how it could have been handled more sensitively? As nightfall approached they were asked to disperse, the vigil having gone on peacefully for hours earlier through the day with even a member of the royal family managing to attend safely. Some of the women near the central bandstand who refused to move were put to the ground to be handcuffed then moved away from the area. Why didn’t they just accept it was time to go home when asked?
I do agree with you. But again I find myself also agreeing with Relentless Pete on this; why couldn’t they have just handled it a bit better!? Turned a half a blind eye on the basis that everyone is masked, observes social distancing and there’s no rowdiness and it’s over by 11pm or something like that.
I.e. Use the “ways and means” Act.
The problem is I suppose that it then sets an unofficial precedent which will backfire elsewhere. Argh. It’s impossible and I suppose they did the right thing when one considers the longer term impact.
I felt sorry for the cute redhead on the floor, I like redheads...
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15 Mar 21
@earl-of-trumps saidEvidence also shows that transmission of the virus outdoors is greatly reduced and that such gatherings are not superspreaders.
Very touch situation, but if I was to make the decision I'd say let them mourn together. But that's just me.