I don't see how there can be any argument here. Our site owner has made a decision, which is entirely rational, makes good sense, practically obligated by law and has acted accordingly.
Perhaps before doing so he could have opened up the discussion to try and avoid this backlash, but then again there is no reason why he should have to do so.
By the way, how many under 13's were there?
> Originally posted by Remora91
> For some reason this new law doesn't make much sense to me. RHP
> is based in the UK. This law only applys in the US. Russ shouldn't
> have to follow it.
Originally posted by Russ
I am not a lawyer, nor have I sought legal advice (I can't afford it!), but this site is hosted in the US - and that has implications, I am quite sure.
-Russ
Well, even an Internet entity that does business with the U.S. (i.e. accepts payment from U.S. citizens) can be brought to trial in the U.S. for legal violations.
I think you made the right decision (on several levels), but I'm curious about what other possibly unpleasant changes are coming down the pike before I get too comfortable here.
By the way, could you make the dialogue box border in a game red or something? I am focused on the board and never see what people are saying in the existing black-and-white one.
-f
Originally posted by Remora91Excuse me, I never cussed on this site 🙂 I am a moderator on another site, you'd think I know what is and isn't allowed.
But thats not fair to us! You guys shouldn't have been cussing in the first place if you knew there were children on the site. And you did. So instead of cleaning up your act you're going to simply get rid of us. Nice goin. You'd think that the internet would be the only place without age restrictions, but no. ðŸ˜
See the posts "who's perverted" "who's naked", and did you ever take a look on the debates forum?
If children under a certain age are allowed to come here, they would see that. There are lwas stating that it isn't allowed. Or do you want to take care of all the pedophiles and sexmaniacs trying to seduce little boys and girls?
Some people don't care about who go to this site, they just want to cuss, and so they do. It's people like that that ruin it for the younger ones. The creators of this site have the responsibility to ensure that the very young under us aren't harmed in any way.
Originally posted by FeivelI would say it would fall under US law because: 1) It solicits business in the US and therefore is actively "doing business" in the US under the law; and/or 2) Russ mentioned that it is "hosted" in the US; which again because of my limited computer knowledge I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds like there's some direct tie in to US territory. Does that help? If you could give a more specific question, I'll pull up the text of COPPA and try to cite relevant passages.
Let me say that while I disagree with the age restriction i will support the decision Russ made since he is reponsible for this website. What I don't understand is how RHP actually falls under COPPA. Can someone please explain how COPPA applies to this site.
Feivel
I think "hosted in the US" means that when you connect to the RHP site the server that you are connecting to is actually physically located in the US, even though the site owners are not.
In other words the RHP owners are paying a US company to rent or lease their server equipment to make this site available on the internet.
regards, Marc
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Originally posted by no1marauderMy question is not about the ablicability of US law but it is that I do not understand how RHP is a site geared towards children that would fall under the jurisdiction of COPPA.
I would say it would fall under US law because: 1) It solicits business in the US and therefore is actively "doing business" in the US under the law; and/or 2) Russ mentioned that it is "hosted" in the US; which again becau ...[text shortened]... I'll pull up the text of COPPA and try to cite relevant passages.
If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed to children under 13 that collects personal information from children or if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge that you are collecting personal information from children, you must comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act.
*
To determine whether a Web site is directed to children, the FTC considers several factors, including the subject matter; visual or audio content; the age of models on the site; language; whether advertising on the Web site is directed to children; information regarding the age of the actual or intended audience; and whether a site uses animated characters or other child-oriented features.
*
To determine whether an entity is an "operator" with respect to information collected at a site, the FTC will consider who owns and controls the information; who pays for the collection and maintenance of the information; what the pre-existing contractual relationships are in connection with the information; and what role the Web site plays in collecting or maintaining the information.
Seems to me that the two sections in bold exclude or are loopholes that exclude RHP.
Feivel
Originally posted by FeivelThe site doesn't have to be geared toward children, the law applies according to the FTC to: Any web site operator who collects personal information from children under 13 including full name, email address, hobbies, etc is required to seek parental consent BEFORE obtaining said information.
My question is not about the ablicability of US law but it is that I do not understand how RHP is a site geared towards children that would fall under the jurisdiction of COPPA.
Feivel
I can't remember if we're required to give our full names when we register or subscribe, but I know we have to give our e-mail address and just going to a chess site would probably reveal a "hobby" within the broad confines of COPPA. So I don't think there is much question that the law is applicable (the law sucks in my opinion, but what can you do).
One problem with the net is that we don't really know the truth about anyone with whom we talk online. Any and every one of us could be lying. You can't always tell based on conversation either. I mean, look at remora. She could easily pass for a college prof in her 40's! There are people in their 40's here who are very childlike (notice I didn't say childish 🙂 )
Many argue that if a credit card was used, so the person must be over 18, but that isn't always true. The people under 18 who are here most likely had their parents' approval to join rhp. As we all know, if you go out to Yahoo, or any other chat room, or game chat room, you are subject to all manner of subject matter and language. That is the nice thing about rhp. The posters in the forums are, for the most part, self-moderating.
I hate to lose our younger players, but I understand Russ' predicament He is definitely caught between a rock and a hard place, and he is doing the best for rhp.
Originally posted by no1marauderRead my above post and expand upon the citations i posted. The information Russ collects (as far as credit) is the parents information and there is no way Russ can have full knowledge otherwise.
The site doesn't have to be geared toward children, the law applies according to the FTC to: Any web site operator who collects personal information from children under 13 including full name, email address, hobbies, etc is required to seek parental consent BEFORE obtaining said information.
I can't remember if we're required to give ...[text shortened]... is much question that the law is applicable (the law sucks in my opinion, but what can you do).
Feivel
Originally posted by FeivelSorry, I did not see your edit but I don't believe the two provisions you cited exclude RHP. The first would specifically include RHP as if the site admins KNOW there are children under 13 (which they certainly do) and they are collecting personal information as defined by the Act (see my post above), they are covered by COPPA. Since both of these prerequistes are met, the site is covered by the law.
My question is not about the ablicability of US law but it is that I do not understand how RHP is a site geared towards children that would fall under the jurisdiction of COPPA.
If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed to children under 13 that collects personal information from children or [b]if you operate a general audience W ...[text shortened]...
Seems to me that the two sections in bold exclude or are loopholes that exclude RHP.
Feivel
The second provision seems just as clear: the site admins are the ones who own and control the information; hence, they are the operators within the definition of the Act, hence thay are required to get VERIFIABLE parental consent BEFORE they collect personal information from children under 13. I don't see any way around it; although if I was paid enough I'd argue the other way! But, I wouldn't have a high degree of confidence in convincing a judge otherwise.
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Originally posted by TheMaster37You made me realize that I was wrong, I have cussed on this site before but I promise not to do it again. I am trying to find ways to make this site more kid-friendly but I'm part of the problem. I'm sorry everybody.
Some people don't care about who go to this site, they just want to cuss, and so they do. It's people like that that ruin it for the younger ones. The creators of this site have the responsibility to ensure that the very young under us aren't harmed in any way.
-reagan
Originally posted by FeivelI'm sorry I'm typing something and I don't see your post in-between. It's not just credit card information; as I said I don't remember if we give our full names at registeration (could someone who recently registered help me out) but we do give e-mail addresses (which children usually have separate e-mail addresses) and even the knowledge that a child is joining a chess site is revealing a "hobby" under the terms of the Act. See my above post for discussion of the second point. And if he didn't know he had people under 13 on the site, he certainly does now!!!
Read my above post and expand upon the citations i posted. The information Russ collects (as far as credit) is the parents information and there is no way Russ can have full knowledge otherwise.
Feivel