Before I start, I'll just say that I am not passing any judgements on whether sintubin has
been cheating. What follows refers to what happens afterwards. I can only speak for myself,
but if anyone agrees with me, please say so by replying to this post.
To Schliemann, if sintubin has not been cheating:
You obviously owe sintubin an apology, along with the others whom you have accused of
being in his 'group'. But the mistake you made is entirely understandable; the nature of this
site means that it is very difficult to tell if someone is cheating, or conversely to tell if they
are playing fairly, and there is much less communication between players than in face-to-face
meetings. Under these circumstances it is quite easy to spot a pattern, draw the wrong
conclusions and get carried away, becoming more and more convinced that you are right. So
I forgive you, and will treat you and anything you say just as I would have done a few days
ago.
To sintubin, if you have been cheating:
What you have done is wrong, even if you only cheated or 'bent the rules' occasionally, but
I'm sure it's not a criminal offence in Belgium or anywhere else in the world. What I would
expect from you is an apology and a promise never to cheat again, together with an
explanation of exactly how, and to what extent you cheated, to help us spot this kind of thing
in future. If you have been systematically cheating and Chris and Russ decide to reset your
rating to 1200, then that is also fair, and you should not complain. However, once you have
posted your apology, you will have been punished enough in my eyes by this ordeal, even if
your rating is not reset. Therefore I will forgive you and treat you just as before. If I play
you in future, I will not suspect you of cheating, not least because to do so again would
immediately arouse suspicion, and so serve no purpose whatsoever.
This was an excellent and well thought out post...and I for one would
be the first to stand up and do exactly what you say.
But let me first interject a few things.
1.) Do you think I would ever have come on here and said all of this
unless I knew I was telling the truth? I have known for a LONG time
and Gil and I have had our probs on here as well as off of this
site...and untill now I have been very cordial and tried to keep my
knowledge to myself.
2.) They even brought up the fact that they use each other's
accounts...that is a clear indication that I am telling the truth. Once
again..if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...most likely it is a
duck.
So in effect...there really are no apologies needed by anyone involved
in this...I am not asking for any and i am sure that no one else wants
one. People on here come here to play chess..make
friends..chat...and to have fun. Cheating and lying is something that
has never sat well in the chess world...and it never will...and just
because we all sit in our homes and not staring at our opponent over
the board makes it easier for people to do this kind of thing.
I stand for the rules...I make alot mistakes myself...I am not
perfect...but this whole ordeal has gone far beyond the rules or even a
human conscience.
Dave
1.) No, I do not think you would have said what you have said unless you were sure that it
was true. I don't think you are lying, but am keeping an open mind as to whether or not you
are mistaken. Even if you are, I won't think any less of you, because it's a very easy
mistake to make.
2.) Using others' accounts is certainly suspicious, but it does not prove that sintubin has been
systematically cheating in the way you say. I am working on the principle of 'innocent until
proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt'.
In a tournament where money is involved, I too would treat cheating very seriously, and be
all in favour of fines and bans. But all cheaters stand to gain on a site like this, even if they
do not get caught, is the prestige of having a high rating, and even then only in the RHP
community itself; and any kind of accusation by a prominent pawn star such as yourself more
than cancels out this prestige. For this reason I consider such an offence less serious than
one committed in an official chess match. I can't claim my attitude to cheating on RHP is the
'right' one, or that yours is the 'wrong' one; in the end Chris and Russ are the only ones in a
position to do this. I merely state my personal opinion on the matter.
Beyond a human conscience lies only rage, and while that may be understandable, it is not a
solution.
Yes...the use of others accounts only proves one thing...that a person
who will do that will do other things that are dishonest.
In a court of law in a murder case a jury is given only so much
information and they have to decide whether the person is guilty or
not due to the facts and assumptions that are handed to them.
In no way shape or form am I trying to escalate what this is to
murder...I am just trying to make an analogy.
They have all admitted to using each other's accounts...so in effect if
you play misslead you could be playing Miss Take or sintubin or
lioness or alley crime or whoever is all involved in this...and vice a
versa.
That in itself is enough for any jury to convict a person given the facts
I have given regarding the cheating issue.
Simple as that.
Dave
Dave,
Frankly, and unfortunately, there is far too much cheating, bickering
and accusations going on at this site, and with little to no effort to
correct it.
While I must admit, playing against another opponent who may be
using a computer has probably made me a stronger player
(remember I told you once that I hate losing?), it's not ethical
behavior.
Currently, because of all the garbage being slung here and the
unethical play, along with the poor effort to curb it, I am considering
playing all my serious games at www.PlayChess.de.
I don't think people realize how damaging to a site and people accusations can be.
I watched it destroy CivLeague(former civilization2 ladder).A once fine,
respected and extremely fun site became a laughing stock.It never recovered and
slowly died an agonizing death.
Remember the fella that was accused during the Atlanta games?...his life was
ruined.Now its not exactly the same thing but not exactly a different thing either.
At the forums I mod,I do not allow any public accusations or related matters at
all.It is to be handled privately and without grandiose.I think its best for the
site(CivFanatics.com😀) and all concerned.
Be well.