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  1. Joined
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    24 Jan '13 23:14
    We recently purchased a house and had pay insurance to cover us against a possible claim for church repairs due to an old land covenant .It is not a large sum and I think the use of reasonable covenants is valid.However,the religious organisation who owns the church enjoys a number of financial advantages which my business does not,being a Humanist this I feel this unreasonable. .
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    24 Jan '13 23:251 edit
    Originally posted by OdBod
    We recently purchased a house and had pay insurance to cover us against a possible claim for church repairs due to an old land covenant .It is not a large sum and I think the use of reasonable covenants is valid.However,the religious organisation who owns the church enjoys a number of financial advantages which my business does not,being a Humanist this I feel this unreasonable. .
    You or your business are not a registered charity I presume. Religious organisations get 'tax breaks', on their donations because they do charitable (or should do) charitable works. The HMRC 'gift aid', arrangement is used so that tax payers can claim 20% back on their charitable contributions from the government either through self assessment or direct from the respective Tax office. You are perfectly entitled to do the same providing that your organisation is non profit and a registered charity. The fact that you are a humanist is to all intents and purposes, irrelevant and i cannot see why you feel that it should be a justifying cause for you also to receive tax relief.
  3. Dublin Ireland
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    24 Jan '13 23:26
    Originally posted by OdBod
    We recently purchased a house and had pay insurance to cover us against a possible claim for church repairs due to an old land covenant .It is not a large sum and I think the use of reasonable covenants is valid.However,the religious organisation who owns the church enjoys a number of financial advantages which my business does not,being a Humanist this I feel this unreasonable. .
    In answer to your title thread,


    NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!


    Tax the b********ds into oblivion.

    If they don't want to pay tax then close them down.
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    24 Jan '13 23:293 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    In answer to your title thread,


    NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!


    Tax the b********ds into oblivion.

    If they don't want to pay tax then close them down.
    You fail to understand the taxation. Charitable organisations can claim a percentage back from the government on donations which they receive and which the HMRC terms , a 'tax relief'. That the government should be willing to help charitable organisations in this way is bad , why? If you are not making a profit, you cannot nor should not be taxed.
  5. Dublin Ireland
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    24 Jan '13 23:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    You fail to understand the taxation. Charitable organisations can claim a percentage back from the government on donations which they receive and which the HMRC terms , a 'tax relief'. That the government should be willing to help charitable organisations in this way is bad , why? If you are not making a profit, you cannot nor should not be taxed.
    It is you who has misunderstood.
    I have no problem with real charities trying to help others.


    I have a problem with religious organizations who masquerade as charities.
  6. Joined
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    24 Jan '13 23:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    You or your business are not a registered charity I presume. Religious organisations get 'tax breaks', on their donations because they do charitable (or should do) charitable works. The HMRC 'gift aid', arrangement is used so that tax payers can claim 20% back on their charitable contributions from the government either through self assessment or di ...[text shortened]... ot see why you feel that it should be a justifying cause for you also to receive tax relief.
    I whole heartedly agree with charity and give to many causes,but charitable donations from any organisations tend to reinforce and legitimise those bodies in the eyes of others.
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    25 Jan '13 00:081 edit
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    It is you who has misunderstood.
    I have no problem with real charities trying to help others.


    I have a problem with religious organizations who masquerade as charities.
    forgive me , it was not easily discernible from your text.

    Tax the b********ds into oblivion.

    If they don't want to pay tax then close them down.
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    25 Jan '13 00:141 edit
    Originally posted by OdBod
    I whole heartedly agree with charity and give to many causes,but charitable donations from any organisations tend to reinforce and legitimise those bodies in the eyes of others.
    Of course, why else would a donor donate if they did not think that the recipient of their respective charity was legitimate? The fact that we may or may not perceive them as being legitimate is of no consequence, for it is the individuals prerogative to evaluate which is legitimate and which is not. If you donate to charity and you are a tax payer, it would be prudent to utilise the gift aid program so that your chosen charity may receive an extra 20 percent on your donation.
  9. Dublin Ireland
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    25 Jan '13 00:15
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    forgive me , it was not easily discernible from your text.
    You should know me by now.


    There is a big difference between someone who actually offers practical help

    and a priest who just passes around a plate or a hat.

    Secularism is the only answer to the likes of your religion
    and all other religions which are simply man made organizations
    designed to control populations and bleed them of their assets.
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    25 Jan '13 00:353 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    You should know me by now.


    There is a big difference between someone who actually offers practical help

    and a priest who just passes around a plate or a hat.

    Secularism is the only answer to the likes of your religion
    and all other religions which are simply man made organizations
    designed to control populations and bleed them of their assets.
    really, secularism? enter any Sikh temple and you will receive a free meal anywhere in the entire the world. Perhaps you can direct me to a secular organisation which offers the same. Also, what about all those persons who have been helped to overcome all manner of difficulties, from prostitution to drug abuse by religious charities motivated primarily by a humanitarian conscientiousness borne of their religious convictions? What will motivate the secularist Johnny? Shall we cite examples which attempted to install a purely secularist government, like the Khmer Rouge which killed millions of innocent people in an attempt to establish an atheistic state? Shall we talk of Communist China, Stalinist Russia? Albania? Shall we Johnny? Secularism is façade. It fails to recognise that we as humans have a spiritual need and should be free to explore that need, it masquerades under the guise of celebrating diversity while imposing conformity, embracing freedom while being intolerant of anything which opposes it tenets.
  11. Joined
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    25 Jan '13 00:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Of course, why else would a donor donate if they did not think that the recipient of their respective charity was legitimate? The fact that we may or may not perceive them as being legitimate is of no consequence, for it is the individuals prerogative to evaluate which is legitimate and which is not. If you donate to charity and you are a tax payer, ...[text shortened]... e gift aid program so that your chosen charity may receive an extra 20 percent on your donation.
    Would I be right in assuming that religious organisations usually suggest certain advantages might be had by dealing with them (eg redemption etc)?. Many other charitable organisations offer nothing other than to help others.This might suggest an unfair advantage.On a lighter note, the office space used by say the church of England is a little bit bigger than say the offices of the charity Children in Need.I would also suggest that the benefits obtained by clergy may be worthwhile (taxable benefit in kind?).
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    25 Jan '13 01:071 edit
    Originally posted by OdBod
    Would I be right in assuming that religious organisations usually suggest certain advantages might be had by dealing with them (eg redemption etc)?. Many other charitable organisations offer nothing other than to help others.This might suggest an unfair advantage.On a lighter note, the office space used by say the church of England is a little bit bigger than ...[text shortened]... also suggest that the benefits obtained by clergy may be worthwhile (taxable benefit in kind?).
    Help takes many forms. It appears to me that the Church of England is somewhat ostentatious for a so called charity, their lands and buildings are certainly imposing. I have no idea what kinds of benefits clergy receive for I am of the opinion that a minster of God should be self sufficient, providing for his own needs rather than being paid a salary by parishioners. I cannot recall Christ ever receiving payment and I certainly recall Peter disdaining silver as payment for services rendered.
  13. Standard memberChessPraxis
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    25 Jan '13 05:07
    Maybe
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    25 Jan '13 08:432 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    You or your business are not a registered charity I presume. Religious organisations get 'tax breaks', on their donations because they do charitable (or should do) charitable works. The HMRC 'gift aid', arrangement is used so that tax payers can claim 20% back on their charitable contributions from the government either through self assessment or di ...[text shortened]... ot see why you feel that it should be a justifying cause for you also to receive tax relief.
    Actually, the charitable donations tax relief is not dependent on doing charitable works.

    To qualify for relief, the organisation must be formed exclusively for the purpose of various specified activities. One of these is for the 'advancement of religion'. So a church can spend all its money on itself and still be subsidised by the taxpayer.

    I am not against churches getting tax relief per se, but it should be conditional on this money being used exclusively for the other listed charitable activities and not for the promotion of that religion. The 'advancement of religion' should be removed from the list of specified activities.

    Do you agree?
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    25 Jan '13 10:00
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Actually, the charitable donations tax relief is not dependent on doing charitable works.

    To qualify for relief, the organisation must be formed exclusively for the purpose of various specified activities. One of these is for the 'advancement of religion'. So a church can spend all its money on itself and still be subsidised by the taxpayer.

    I ...[text shortened]... ement of religion' should be removed from the list of specified activities.

    Do you agree?
    One must however be a registered charity and it therefore begs the question how one attains the status without doing charitable works. It appears to me , that like any scheme it may be open to abuse. I don't see why the advancement of religion should be removed if indeed the advancement of that religious conviction is bring benefit to the recipients in some tangible way. Does it provide education, counselling, guidance etc etc etc and indeed, if one is getting benefit in some way, as does happens, through the advancement of a religion then why should it be exempt. Surely this is the whole point of adopting a particular religious stance in the first instance in that it bestows benefits not only on the adherent but on others as well? Of course a case may be made against those that are purely self serving, but to remove the clause entirely is somewhat Draconian and it appears to me that a focus should be made on the charitable works themselves as being a legitimising factor as to whether one should receive tax relief or not. So no I do not agree. I still stand be my stance that religious organisations and especially religious ministers should be self sufficient, it irks me immensely that the most basic spiritual guidance should be subject to a fee in some form or another.
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