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Originally posted by ncrosbyit is indeed an enormous problem and you have identified 2 of the crucial areas very accurately - the breeding and the eating. there is an unfortunate assumption by the 'well fed' that things will go on just as they are for ever and ever, even though history repeatedly demonstrates otherwise often in catastrophic ways.
In my opinion, nothing is going to change until our society changes the way we eat, and the way we breed- and that is not going to change, no matter how hard activists fight. It's sad, but it's the world we live in. And I think it's sa ...[text shortened]... the garbage.
Not all I wanted to say, but it's the jist of it.
i can understand why you wouldn't see 'a point to animal activism'. the problems are far greater than we discuss in this little thread. just go to any general AR website such as peta.com and you will see how the list of 'causes' to fight for goes on and on. fortunately, the list of activists also goes on and on despite malignment, threats and various other opposition. these are indeed very courageous people fighting what you have correctly discerned as enormous odds.
so the way to look at it is this. we may not be able to save the world, but we can save our backyard and we can certainly save ourselves. there are lots of things we can do in this area. if you can stand being grossed out a little more, start by finding out about these things (visit the goVeg! section on our VeggieChess website as a starting point, if you wish). you won't change the world, but you can change your part of it.
when i became veg in 1972, i was completely oblivious to the environmental and ethical issues. i went veg, because i got sick and i wanted some answers which i found in the nutritional arguments in favor of vegetarianism (not a popular thing at all back then). it was pretty clear to me that becoming veg wasn't going to have much of an impact on anything beyond myself. in fact, i wasn't really a veg back then, just a veg wannabe - used to eat meat and fish etc sometimes at restaurants. however, it was a start and at least my awareness grew albeit slowly. after my son was born in 1989, i took the matter more seriously learned about the issues in greater detail - and not only became a strict vegetarian, but also became vegan. again, not a big impact on the world, but a huge one on ourselves.
you are right when you say that 'It's sad, but it's the world we live in'. however, much of it is still beautiful as are the people who work to keep it that way. as king arthur said at the end of the musical camelot - we are all but waves in the ocean, but some of those waves sparkle in the moonlight - and in those sparkles we may find the light to guide us.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by chancremechanicFair enough. I just misunderstood. 😉
Dyl, you quoted me out of context. I never said that two Homosexuals could not marry. I don't care if they get married or not. I just don't have to accept it. I said that I shouldn't have to be forced to accept Harry and Peter as legitimate spouses. I won't forcibly stop a Gay wedding...not my business. At the same time, I don't want a mili ...[text shortened]... s have at it...I serve my country so people of differing opinions can protest peacefully. Cheers
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Originally posted by dylI admire your stand and not being one of those people who wine about it. You walk the walk. Good for you. Personaly, I don't agree with your arguments. I get a kick out of people who have no stomach for all that is involved in slaughter, but still eat meat. I have killed animals gutted them and eaten them. I know what is done. Big deal.
Fair enough. I just misunderstood. 😉
There is no pansy substitute for bacon.
sorry added to the wrong post.
Mike
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Originally posted by rapalla7i don't know which post you are referring to as you yourself have indicated. so i also don't know what arguments you don't agree with or why - so i can't respond unless you clarify.
I don't agree with your arguments. I get a kick out of people who have no stomach for all that is involved in slaughter, but still eat meat. I have killed animals gutted them and eaten them. I know what is done. Big deal.
There is no pansy substitute for bacon.
sorry added to the wrong post.
Mike
however, permit me to point out that it may be one thing to "have killed animals gutted them and eaten them", but quite another to deal with what happens in the slaughterhouse. investigations into the slaughterhouse operations are sometimes prompted by the employees themselves -
One slaughterhouse employee explained: "One time the knocking gun was broke all day; they were taking a knife and cutting the back of the cow's neck open while he's still standing up. They would just fall down and be a-shaking. And they stab cows in the butt to make 'em move. Break their tails. They beat them so bad. I've drug cows till their bones start breaking, while they were still alive. Bringing them around the corner, and they get stuck up in the doorway, just pull them till their hide be ripped, till the blood just drip on the steel and concrete. Breaking their legs pulling them in. And the cow is crying with its tongue stuck out. They pull him till his neck just pop." (http://www.goveg.com/active/cmp-ffa11.html)
the owner of the bicycle store, i used to frequent worked in a slaughterhouse in alberta, canada as a stunner for several weeks when he was in his early twenties. he said he would never do it again no matter what they paid him (which isn't a whole lot either).
this is nothing to get a 'kick out of'. it is brutal not only to the victims , but to the human spirit as well.
As Howard Lyman, former cattle rancher put it: "If you visit the killing floor of a slaughterhouse, it will brand your soul for life."
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by pradtfI was to your post.
i don't know which post you are referring to as you yourself have indicated. so i also don't know what arguments you don't agree with or why - so i can't respond unless you clarify.
however, permit me to point out that it may be one thing to "have killed animals gutted them and eaten them", but quite another to deal with what happens in the slaughter ...[text shortened]... e killing floor of a slaughterhouse, it will brand your soul for life."
in friendship,
prad
I agree with you that it should be done humanely. It is too bad to hear stories of people who are desensitised totaly as to not respect life when taking it. Every one knows there are alot of morons in the world and there alway will be. Maybe they should have the organization of P.E.T.A hold the guns and pull the triggers in the slaughter houses if they are so concerned about it. That way even though they cannot stop the innevitable ways of the world they can at least see to the humanity of it. Maybe they should spend the money that they waste so happhazardly by paying $100,00.00 for a one time deal, for a cow that will probobly be dead in a few years anyways. Or maybe spend the money at the slaughter houses to upgrade their prosseses. I can see a real money making business here. I will buy a cow from a farmer and put a notice of slaughter in the paper, then I will open an account at the bank called save bessy.......I guess you can see where I am going. I feel that you people have the genuine feelings worth respect, I just think you are wasting your money on short term and have no viable long term plans.
Mike
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Originally posted by rapalla7where are you getting this idea that peta is spending $100,000 trying to save this 1 steer? a lot of the money isn't even coming from AR activists, but people who admire the steer's heroic effort to beat the odds. i appreciate your helpful suggestion on how peta should spend their money, but if you read my earlier post you would see that you have no need to fear. here, i'll copy that part again:
Maybe they should spend the money that they waste so happhazardly by paying $100,00.00 for a one time deal, for a cow that will probobly be dead in a few years anyways. Or maybe spend the money at the slaughter houses to upgrade their pros ...[text shortened]... ur money on short term and have no viable long term plans.
Mike
"peta is not spending $100,000 first of all and second it is not "YOUR" money. it is money that they receive through donations and fundraising - they are a non-profit just like any other. in this case, the money to buy the steer (which doesn't amount to $100,000 (since the steer is made of gold only in spirit), appears to be coming largely from all over the continent."
peta does have long term plans and they do put money into promoting more humane practises (as do many other ar organizations) - they do hold the 'gun' but not to the animals heads. thanks to their work the 'gun' is pointed towards the abusers in the form of legislation for better enactment and enforcement of animal cruelty and welfare laws.
i think this effort may prove to be somewhat more effective than your 'bessy' plan - but thanks for the suggestion anyway. besides, i doubt your plan would work because from what i understand from you post in the other thread, your cat and dog would eat 'bessy' before significant monies could be collected.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by pradtfGotta love ya. http://www.vegetus.org/essay/plants.htm
where are you getting this idea that peta is spending $100,000 trying to save this 1 steer? a lot of the money isn't even coming from AR activists, but people who admire the steer's heroic effort to beat the odds. i appreciate your helpful suggestion on how peta should spend their money, but if you read my earlier post you would see that you have no need t ...[text shortened]... nd dog would eat 'bessy' before significant monies could be collected.
in friendship,
prad
Plants have feelings too ya know
😀
Mike
Originally posted by rapalla7thank you mike for another helpful suggestion - perhaps you should start a separate thread for it though. although, it may be more appropriate to have rhp's resident breatherean to do so 😉
Gotta love ya. http://www.vegetus.org/essay/plants.htm
Plants have feelings too ya know
😀
Mike
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by rapalla7apparently so to some extent. certainly people fast for days, for health and theraputic reasons. there are reports of breatharians who do exactly what RC says (without the chocolate, of course), but i haven't ever met one. it is nevertheless an interesting possibility and there is apparently some 'scientific' justification to it, though i'll have to do some digging to find it again.
Can a person do that????!
in friendhsip,
prad
Originally posted by pradtfBut wouldn't it be a horrible recipe for bone density?
apparently so to some extent. certainly people fast for days, for health and theraputic reasons. there are reports of breatharians who do exactly what RC says (without the chocolate, of course), but i haven't ever met one. it is nevertheless an interesting possibility and there is apparently some 'scientific' justification to it, though i'll have to do some digging to find it again.
in friendhsip,
prad