@fmf saidIs it? Are you saying others are allowed to define our success (or failure)?
While what you say is true, success is also in the eye of the beholder and not just in the eye of the person achieving [or not achieving, as the case may be] certain targets.
I think I see what you are asking and it seems like a valuable question to explore. Perhaps "success" is not the best word.
Do our actions matter? Yes. Is there an argument to be made that "doing better things" is just better by definition - yes that sounds plausible too.
But when we try to accomplish something and "succeed", we can all live without the Greek chorus commenting on the worthiness of the endeavor.
@anitya saidWell Said.
Is it? Are you saying others are allowed to define our success (or failure)?
I think I see what you are asking and it seems like a valuable question to explore. Perhaps "success" is not the best word.
Do our actions matter? Yes. Is there an argument to be made that "doing better things" is just better by definition - yes that sounds plausible too.
But when we try to ...[text shortened]... nd "succeed", we can all live without the Greek chorus commenting on the worthiness of the endeavor.
-VR
@ponderable saidI disagree. I feel silly quoting Nietzsche to you in English, but for the sake of those here who don’t speak German: “the end of a piece of music is not its goal.” To play it well is entirely in the doing, not in any goal. Assuming it is performed well, the only remaining question is, is it a good piece of composition or just muzak (elevator background noise )? So, that is where success is to be sought: not in any goal, but in doing something worthwhile and doing it well.
In my opinion it is quite clear that success is to reach a goal.
The validity of said goal is not in the scope of the definition of "success".
If however your goal is to lead a morally good life, then "doing better things" is directly the same as "doing things (her: choosing life goals) better".
@very-musty saidI'm retired, so with the Pandemic, I quite enjoy it too.
Success is happiness.
I'm happy being a bum who plays chess all day.
I am successful. 🤗
I get my daily exercise, lots of fresh air next to the lake where I live.
Enjoy the beautiful sunsets in the evening.
-VR
@anitya saidSome really can't, though.
Is it? Are you saying others are allowed to define our success (or failure)?
I think I see what you are asking and it seems like a valuable question to explore. Perhaps "success" is not the best word.
Do our actions matter? Yes. Is there an argument to be made that "doing better things" is just better by definition - yes that sounds plausible too.
But when we try to ...[text shortened]... nd "succeed", we can all live without the Greek chorus commenting on the worthiness of the endeavor.
And they might call others out for not cheering or not cheering more enthusiastically.
@moonbus said"If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well." -- Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield, 1774
I disagree. I feel silly quoting Nietzsche to you in English, but for the sake of those here who don’t speak German: “the end of a piece of music is not its goal.” To play it well is entirely in the doing, not in any goal. Assuming it is performed well, the only remaining question is, is it a good piece of composition or just muzak (elevator background noise )? So, that is where success is to be sought: not in any goal, but in doing something worthwhile and doing it well.
@anitya saidOf course. Anyone who interacts with others can define their success [in doing so] on their own terms but their success is also liable to be defined by those with whom they interact. Are you suggesting it should be 'disallowed'?
Is it? Are you saying others are allowed to define our success (or failure)?
@anitya saidIf the thing that is being accomplished [or worked towards] by the individual involves interaction with - or impact on - or consequences for others then weighing the success of that interaction/impact/consequence is a matter for those others too.
But when we try to accomplish something and "succeed", we can all live without the Greek chorus commenting on the worthiness of the endeavor.
@fmf saidNot a big believer in "should" - not my favorite concept. So no not suggesting that at all.
Of course. Anyone who interacts with others can define their success [in doing so] on their own terms but their success is also liable to be defined by those with whom they interact. Are you suggesting it should be 'disallowed'?
However listening to others and caring a whit what they think is definitely situational. I recently took a new position and asked at the interview how they defined success - so I would know what to strive for. So yes - your point is well taken.
Other than that though ...
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. - Ehrmann
