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Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperSo you're making a claim with no evidence to back it up and refusing to accept any evidence to the contrary.
These numbers you're using ignore the playoffs and the Super Bowl, right?
Also, you can NOT take less pass attempts, add to them, and then assume the percentage would stay the same. Those passes you're magically adding.... those are throws that Alex Smith did not want to make.
Hello, norm ......................................................
EDIT: How about this: AS was more accurate at every single 10 yard increment but at 21-30 where he still completed almost as high a percentage as CK did in all his passes under 20; 62.5% to 63.4%.
EDIT2: They do but CK's completion percentage was slightly lower in the postseason than the regular season.
Originally posted by no1marauderSo let me get this straight. You're actually asking for evidence that Alex Smith didn't want to make the throws that he chose not to make?
So you're making a claim with no evidence to back it up and refusing to accept any evidence to the contrary.
Hello, norm ......................................................
EDIT: How about this: AS was more accurate at every single 10 yard increment but at 21-30 where he still completed almost as high a percentage as CK did in all his passes under 20; 62.5% to 63.4%.
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperNo, I'm asking for some evidence that the only reason he had a high completion percentage is because he ONLY throws short, high percentage passes which is what you claimed.
So let me get this straight. You're actually asking for evidence that Alex Smith didn't want to make the throws that he chose not to make?
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Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperAnd the stats I presented on that page supported that argument. Obviously CK threw a higher percentage of passes over 20 yards in the last few 49er games, but I'm not a fortuneteller; my post halfway down the page compares CK's numbers at the time with Smith's.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=150111&page=&page=7
Here's the post where you accuse me of "seeing what I want to see" and having "bias" because I rightfully and correctly observed that Colin Kaepernick throws the ball deep much more often than Smith.
EDIT: From the link:
Going into last night's game according to the stats at ESPN, 10 of CK passes have been thrown beyond 21 yards out of 129 attempted (7.8 and he had 5 of 10 with no TDs.http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14001/colin-kaepernick
Alex Smith had thrown 17 beyond 21 out of 217 (also 7.8 and completed 8 for 3 TDs.http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8416/alex-smith
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Originally posted by no1marauderWell, it IS a fact that Smith throws considerably less deep passes than Kaepernick (which, again, I proved you wrong about in the other thread), and that shorter passes are higher percentage passes for all quarterbacks.
No, I'm asking for some evidence that the only reason he had a high completion percentage is because he ONLY throws short, high percentage passes which is what you claimed.
It's mind numbingly stupid not to acknowledge that throwing deep more often than your comfort level will end up with worse results.
Also, if Alex Smith is NOT an inferior deep passer to Kaepernick, how do you account for Kaepernick having such a superior YPA (Yards Per Attempt), regardless of Smith having a superior completion percentage?
Where are those extra yards coming from, magic?
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php
Kaepernick: 7.0 YPA (1st in NFL)
Smith: 5.7 YPA (14th in NFL)
Edit: I missed that was AYPA
Adjusted Yards per Attempt (AYPA) – A quarterback’s Yards per Attempt (YPA) minus sack yards, adjusted by a 45-yard penalty for each interception thrown. 45 yards is chosen because it is approximately equivalent to the Expected Point (EP) value of an interception.
Kaepernick still had more in the regular season, but I can't find the combined Reg/Post season stats.
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperI'm always amazed by internet forum posters puffing out their chests and claiming they "won" an argument. You didn't "prove" anything; the stats at the time were to the contrary as I pointed out.
Well, it IS a fact that Smith throws considerably less deep passes than Kaepernick (which, again, I proved you wrong about in the other thread), and that shorter passes are higher percentage passes for all quarterbacks.
It's mind numbingly stupid not to acknowledge that throwing deep more often than your comfort level will end up ...[text shortened]... flstats.com/playerstats.php
Kaepernick: 7.0 YPA (1st in NFL)
Smith: 5.7 YPA (14th in NFL)
It's mind numbingly stupid to make a ridiculous claim and then have no evidence to back it up. Alex Smith had a very high completion percentage because he was an accurate passer, not because he threw ONLY short, high percentage passes. Sure if he had thrown a higher percentage of deep balls his percentage would have went down a bit, but I don't see any evidence he wouldn't still have been one of the highest completion percentages in the league and you've offered nothing but stubborn, "hold your breath until you turn blue" assertions to the contrary.
Originally posted by no1marauderAh, I see. So I was wrong at the time, but in the course of only THREE post season games Kaepernick amazingly inflated his deep ball stats to coincide with my initial observation.
I'm always amazed by internet forum posters puffing out their chests and claiming they "won" an argument. You didn't "prove" anything; the stats at the time were to the contrary as I pointed out.
It's mind numbingly stupid to make a ridiculous claim and then have no evidence to back it up. Alex Smith had a very high completion percentage b ...[text shortened]... ing but stubborn, "hold your breath until you turn blue" assertions to the contrary.
In actuality you were solely using 20+ yards to define "deep", a distance that is so seldom thrown by any quarterback it's silly to use that as your sole criteria.
The fact is even at the time of my post Kaepernick had WAY more passes over 15 yards, AND Alex Smith was 29th in the league for passes over 10 yards.
Here at least you admitted (YOU) "Sure if he had thrown a higher percentage of deep balls his percentage would have went down a bit"
If Alex Smith went from LAST in the league to FIRST in the league in pass attempts over 15 yards, it would go down more than just a bit. You know this.
But hey, maybe this year we'll find out! Chiefs head coach Any Reid seems to think Alex Smith was..... wait for it.... PLAYING TOO SAFE and he wants to change that.
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/05/4275799/prodded-by-andy-reid-chiefs-qb.html
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperYes the stats changed unless you're saying ESPN was lying about the number of throws he made over 20 yards at the time. So I wasn't "wrong" and you weren't "right".
Ah, I see. So I was wrong at the time, but in the course of only THREE post season games Kaepernick amazingly inflated his deep ball stats to coincide with my initial observation.
In actuality you were solely using 20+ yards to define "deep", a distance that is so seldom thrown by any quarterback it's silly to use that as your sole criteria.
...[text shortened]... that.
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/05/4275799/prodded-by-andy-reid-chiefs-qb.html
I did the extrapolate and gave you the results. Even if Alex Smith had thrown incompletes in every single pass, he still would have had a higher completion percentage than CK. I know the numbers don't count because they disagree with your assertions, but that's TFB.
Andy Reid is entitled to his opinion though his results in 2012 were unimpressive to say the least.
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Originally posted by no1marauderAnd you didn't address the rest of my post. (below).
Yes the stats changed unless you're saying ESPN was lying about the number of throws he made over 20 yards at the time. So I wasn't "wrong" and you weren't "right".
I did the extrapolate and gave you the results. Even if Alex Smith had thrown incompletes in every single pass, he still would have had a higher completion percentage than CK. I k entitled to his opinion though his results in 2012 were unimpressive to say the least.
PS: Perhaps you should take his job! You do know that, even though analysts (former players, coaches) have varying levels of praise for Smith, they ALL agree he plays extremely conservative (safe), right?
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In actuality you were solely using 20+ yards to define "deep", a distance that is so seldom thrown by any quarterback it's silly to use that as your sole criteria.
The fact is even at the time of my post Kaepernick had WAY more passes over 15 yards, AND Alex Smith was 29th in the league for passes over 10 yards.
Here at least you admitted (YOU) "Sure if he had thrown a higher percentage of deep balls his percentage would have went down a bit"
If Alex Smith went from LAST in the league to FIRST in the league in pass attempts over 15 yards, it would go down more than just a bit. You know this.
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Originally posted by dryhumpThe short answer is because you score less points. Sure, you can get away with it more when you have a dominant Defense, but it's still not ideal.
Is there something wrong with playing conservative? Especially if you have a defense like San Fran's, why wouldn't you play conservative? Make short gains, move the chains and let the clock run. What's wrong with that?
How would game managing have worked out after Aldon and Justin Smith got hurt against the Patriots? The Niners D was dismal after that game.
Originally posted by dryhumpUsed to be there was nothing wrong with it. Today's pass-heavy NFL is a different kind of animal though.
Is there something wrong with playing conservative? Especially if you have a defense like San Fran's, why wouldn't you play conservative? Make short gains, move the chains and let the clock run. What's wrong with that?
Originally posted by sasquatch672I noticed you never said you played football. For a total of 10 years, I played little league football, middle school football, and high school football. I played several positions, and both first string and second string. Went through many grueling practices including incredibly hot two-a-days in the Texas August heat and with tough coaches. We were always a team, a single unit, looking out for each other. None of us were weird or offensive like Tebow.
{Laughing...}
You never played team sports. I did, and we had very color, every economic group under the sun. I had to get along with everybody. The Marine Corps only reinforces that.
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Originally posted by sasquatch672You are such a liar. You would be complaining about the gay player shoving his lifestyle in your face, and that it inappropriate for a football game for him to be so radically broadcasting his gayness.
You can believe what you want. Yeah I don't go out of my way to experience and embrace gay culture, but I don't hate on it either. I'm a live-and-let-live type. Liberals like you, on the other hand, are not. You must convert people to your secular religion of state worship, and anyone who disagrees with your agenda is marked undergoes character assassination.
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeMaybe so. Unfortunately, I think his poor play and lack of talent and fit for the NFL, more than offset any team benefit gained from his championship background. That has got to be so frustrating and devastating for an NFL team having Tebow on the field at QB throwing crap passes and with the deer in headlights look.
He is 25 and a proven winner. I wouldn't give up on him just yet if I were an NFL team looking for a QB with potential. Even if Tebow is relegated to a backup role, his championship background might be useful to the team. Besides acting as insurance, backup QB's act as assistant coaches by helping coordinate the offense.