why are some people on this site SO disrespectful of vacation flags. i was just looking through the player tables at some random players and found someone called bull attack who had recently been timed out in most of his games, despite the fact that he had a vacation message up saying " gone for surgery, back soon". how can someone be so gutless and self obsessed to claim a win for a couple of rating points while the person they're playing is in hospital! WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO????
fred
Originally posted by Freddie2004Read your own profile and then answer your own question.
why are some people on this site SO disrespectful of vacation flags. i was just looking through the player tables at some random players and found someone called bull attack who had recently been timed out in most of his games, despite the fact that he had a vacation message up saying " gone for surgery, back soon". how can someone be so gutless and se ...[text shortened]... points while the person they're playing is in hospital! WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO????
fred
It is disgusting.
It is probably justified in the minds of those doing the timing out by their "subculture" approach to "correspondance chess" where a time out victory is just as valid as a checkmate. It's the same mentality that sees data bases and the like as part of the game of "correspondance chess". Protest against any of this and the subculture purists will be all over you telling you the rules allow it. Period.
Originally posted by darvlayyea i dont respect vacation setting when people say something like " gone out for weekend" " too busy to move", but i would never time out someone who had a vacation message saying that they were having surgery! if they were misusing the vacation setting and are not really having surgery then that is just sick.
Read your own profile and then answer your own question.
fred
Freddie, I think you might mis-understand. It has nothing to do with being gutless.
When I first got here, I didn't time people out. then I realized that some people had left the site or were intentionally not moving in our games and I started timing them out (but not people on vacation).
then I realized that many people were very blantantly abusing the vacation flag. They would play with long timebanks, leave their flag up all the time (or alot), and quit moving in games they were losing. Thus, players at the 1300 level could make it into the 1700-1800 range before their timebanks ran out and no one would time them out. This turned me into an investigator- trying to find which of my opponents were abusing the flag and which weren't.
Finally, I determined that there was no way I could honestly prove who was abusing their flag, so the only way to be absolutely fair was to either timeout no one or everyone.
I ran into several blatant flag abusers, so I chose to timeout everyone and I clearly state that in my profile. everyone can feel free to do the same to me.
It's not about petty rating points or being shallow. It's about being fair to all my opponents.
Originally posted by Freddie2004How do determine which excuse is good enough?
yea i dont respect vacation setting when people say something like " gone out for weekend" " too busy to move", but i would never time out someone who had a vacation message saying that they were having surgery! if they were misusing the vacation setting and are not really having surgery then that is just sick.
fred
How do you know who is abusing the flag?
How can you justify timing out one player and not another without making accusations against them?
I think selective time out are more unfair than any of the options I have given.
Originally posted by Saint NickI've got a feeling that if you and I were playing a game... and I said I was going away for 2 weeks... you wouldn't time me out....
How do determine which excuse is good enough?
How do you know who is abusing the flag?
How can you justify timing out one player and not another without making accusations against them?
I think selective time out are more unfair than any of the options I have given.
am I wrong here?
P-
That would be correct.
I have made exception for people who inform at the start of a game that they will be unable to move for a set period of time and I agree not to time them out.
Especially if they are people that I 'know' or that I have played several times in the past.
No prior warning, just a VF and a skull next to it = won game to me
Originally posted by Saint Nickwhy isn't a VF enough? at least for a while. if the flag stays up an inordinate length of time you can always time them out then. sometimes something unexpected happens and people have to just set their flag and deal with it. that should be good enough to protect them for a while. i mean, are the points really so important? if you allocate the same 'grace' period to everyone, you would still be being fair to all your opponents...
That would be correct.
I have made exception for people who inform at the start of a game that they will be unable to move for a set period of time and I agree not to time them out.
Especially if they are people that I 'know' or that ...[text shortened]... o prior warning, just a VF and a skull next to it = won game to me
EDIT: maybe the VF should be renamed a 'Can't Play Now' flag, as 'vacation' seems to imply sunbathing, trout fishing, golf or whatever. Sometimes people have to be away for more serious reasons, and as i mentioned above, sometimes these crop up unexpectedly. In these cases, it might not be practical to inform each opponent individually. Maybe we need a 'Message All Opponents' button for such occasions. At any rate, let's all chill and respect vacation settings for a reasonable period of time, without requiring extra communication or anything troublesome like that.
For this post i'm assuming you're playing for a clan.
say you're pitted aginst someone who uses the vacation flag as it's meant to be used; honestly.
Say the person moves out on his own, and several weeks later this person has all kinds of things coming at him. Things that make him so busy that he barely has time to move. To remedy this this person decides to take 2 weeks to organise his life. He puts up his vacation flag with the notice "Back in two weeks".
You don't see a story in his vacation notice, so you claim.
My point being; many people don't put the real reasons for their flags up on a site where alot of people can read them. You can't tell who abuses the flag or not, maybe you're being sick yourself, without knowing it?
You basically have to choose:
-Do i claim everything, and punish the honest people for other people's actions: THOSE POINTS ARE MINE!
-Do i claim nothing, and let the dishonest people get away with it: I'm here to play chess, not to earn points by any means nessesary.
Ton
Originally posted by dfm65I give wach player a grace period. It's called a timebank. 😀
why isn't a VF enough? at least for a while. if the flag stays up an inordinate length of time you can always time them out then. sometimes something unexpected happens and people have to just set their flag and deal with it. that should be good enough to protect them for a while. i mean, are the points really so important? if you allocate the same 'grace' ...[text shortened]... onable period of time, without requiring extra communication or anything troublesome like that.
Really, you're going back to the investigator and trying to pick and chose who to timeout.
Sooner or later, you will time out the guy that comes back and says "You jerk! you timed me out after I got in an auto wreck and was in the hospital, but didn't time out any one else" or the repeated cries of "You only timed ME out, what do you have against me!!"
I think the only fair way is to chose to either time out or not time out then make your intentions public.
I have to admit I agree with the "purist" side some.
and at the same time I have felt bad about following my own decision, but I have to maintain fairness and give equal respect to all my opponents, so I hold true to it.
Originally posted by plainesThe person in question has not moved since April 2004, almost 9 months have elapsed since the surgery sign went up .
It is disgusting.
It is probably justified in the minds of those doing the timing out by their "subculture" approach to "correspondance chess" where a time out victory is just as valid as a checkmate. It's the same mentality that sees data bases and the like as part of the game of "correspondance chess". Protest against any of this and the subculture purists will be all over you telling you the rules allow it. Period.
Maybe the surgery was life threatening and something went wrong....
Who knows?
What is certain is that everyone who plays knows that here is a possibility of a timeout loss if you do not move within the agreed timescale. Simple way to avoid a timeout loss is always move within the agreed timescale.
I notice you have recently taking a timeout victory against an opponent with a vacation flag set, then again I suppose the rules allow it and RULES are RULES.