Well this game just about sums it up for me.

Site, RHP
date, 17.01.2005
White, FGWE
Black, Simonwells1967
Result, 1-0
Game id, 900159

1.c4, e5
2.g3, d5
3.cxd5, Nf6
4.Bg2, Nxd5
5.Nf3, Nc6
6.0-0, Be7
7.d4, exd
8.Nxd4, Nxd4
9.Qxd4, Nb4 ?
10.Qxg7, Bf6
11.Qh6, Nc2
12.Nc3, Nxa1
13.Rd1, 1-0

Well you might be thinking "whats so good about that" and the answer is nothing, not a thing, untill that is i tell you that not a single move made by white was made by FGWE, not a single move was thought of by me, or considered by me, its all book, an opening book to be precise, that book is called "the Dynamic English", Tony Kosten, the line played above can be found on page 51 in a note to blacks 9th move.
Now your probably thinking "what the hell is he waffling on about", well according to the rules of corry chess the above is perfectly ok, i didnt think of a single move myself, never used my brain, i simply played moves out of a book, and you dont need to be Kasparov to spot that the line is winning for white.
So now your probably thinking "ok, get to the bloody point", and the point is this - whats the differance between the above and running a chess engine ?, there is no differance, the moves played come from a source that is outside of the players brain, and yet one is regarded as ok and the other is regarded as cheating. in fact the above example is worse than engine use because when i run an engine i still have to think at every move for one simple reason - chess engines sometimes do silly things, they get lost, wander off, like little children they need to be looked after, they need leeding by the hand sometimes, need to be shown a move that they have missed, that means each move has to be considered and thought about, there was no thought in the above game, i simply looked in a book :-), but dont worry, those nonsensical rules of corry chess say it's ok.
Now your probably thinking "why the hell dos'nt FGWE just shut the hell up"

Regards FGWE

So don't play correspondence chess then

i really don't see a problem here. you used the resources you are entitled to, and your opponent failed to. if your opponent had bought the same book he could have looked up the same line. every time you use one of the established openings you are utilising the brain power of past masters. they have been developed over long periods of time, with contributions by many people. the only difference b/w OTB and using books and databases it that in the first you have either memorised lines, or are making it up as you go along. in the latter case, you are unlikely, not being a GM, to consistently or even often hit upon the best move. however, you get away with it sometimes because of the quality (or lack thereof) of the opposition. in corr. chess, you research the line being played, and hopefully remember it for next time, thereby improving as a player.
to illustrate this more clearly. say you had memorised the line you played before the game started (GMs do this a lot). then you played it. it that really using your brain to a greater extent (other than your memory)?

Originally posted by BLReid
So don't play correspondence chess then

I noticed your rating climbed pretty high, but has since dropped considerably.. Did you lose the book?

Don't play those sort of opening then, play an opening that is less common.

In fact if you want to play an english as white, I can probably take you out of book pretty early on and get the old grey matter working (just send over a match) 🙂

Well my friend. Chess at this site MUST follow the same rules as postal chess. If you wnat to know why that is I'll explain it. Some years ago before computers could even play chess, postal chess was pretty popular. But someone asked the question: "I think my opponent looked up the opening in a book! Is that legal?"

So the committee got together and, realizing that they could never enforce a rule that a person couldn't look in a chess book, decided the only fair rule was to say that everybody could. :-)

Guess what? When Grandmasters started having adjourned games, the same question came up! A little different, but the same kind of problem... A notable GM sacrificed a piece during his game, but the game was adjourned. During the adjournment the GM , not feeling so comfortable with his sac, asked the question: "How do I know he doesn't get a whole team of masters to find a way out?" And so, once again, the only fair rule was to make it LEGAL for the GM's team mates to help with analysis! Yeah, this was upsetting to me at the time, but in reality there was no way that the TD could police the matter.

So that's why in adjourned games the player can receive advice from his "team", and that's why all correspondence players can also look in a book. Because the rule against such a thing is not possible to enforce.

Which brings us to yet another question at our current time/space relation... Is it possible that at some point the TD's throw in the towel and say, "Okay, it's legal to use any resource you have. Even computer analysis."

Did I understand this correctly? White won?
Why? It certainly didn't look like a done deal to me.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Did I understand this correctly? White won?
Why? It certainly didn't look like a done deal to me.

Originally posted by arrakis
The game is a bust for White. If ...Qe7 Nd5 wins and if ...Bd7 White also has a forced win (was going to show you, but this is even a better idea). People interested in this position should try to find the winning line after ...Bd7

[gid] 900159[/gid]

Originally posted by shavixmir
I still don't see what's so bad.
Surely black can just manouvre about a bit, win some time and eventually get the queen up near white's king?

I don't see the imminent check-mate.

If Black moves the queen to e7, white moves the knight to D5, then black moves the queen to E5.

What's the problem???

Originally posted by arrakis
You are a romantic aren't you! 😀

Originally posted by shavixmir
Hell no.

I'm just baffled to what's so good about White's position. The most, as far as I can see, white can drag out of it is maybe a rook.

Big deal!

Where's the win?

Originally posted by arrakis
The game is a bust for White. If ...Qe7 Nd5 wins and if ...Bd7 White also has a forced win (was going to show you, but this is even a better idea). People interested in this position should try to find the winning line after ...Bd7

[gid] 900159[/gid]