I use MCO as I am permitted to under our TOS. I'm studying opening theory, and if I'm allowed to do so then there is no better way to learn than in the context of actual games. However, sometimes I get a suggestion from the book (especially in the obscure lines in the notes) for a move, or sequence of moves, that I know I would never find or play using my native ability. As far as I'm concerned if I take the book's suggestion for a move that I know would never occur to me as a serious candidate, then I'm cheating - just as much as if I'd had an engine play the move. In these cases I usually make a point of leaving the book and playing somethiong of my own - even if it is weaker.
i disagree. books and databases are ok, simpliciter. if you find an obscure move in a book then great - you're a student of opening theory and you've just learnt something, and have a chance to try it out in a game. if you choose not to use the move - fine, it's up to you. but i think it is wrong to call this 'cheating'.
I'm sure opening books are allowed. This site is supposed to be correspondence chess, and usually books, databases, etc. are allowed in correspondence chess.
Personally, I want to improve my game, which means studying openings, etc. so I will use them as and when. If the TOS changes so that I cannot use them I'll probably stop playing here but I don't think they will.
Originally posted by M CeillierYou make an interesting and a valid point. However under the TOS using books and databases are allowed, so people do.
I use MCO as I am permitted to under our TOS. I'm studying opening theory, and if I'm allowed to do so then there is no better way to learn than in the context of actual games. However, sometimes I get a suggestion from the book (espec ...[text shortened]... the book and playing somethiong of my own - even if it is weaker.
Morally of course there is no difference between getting assistance from Fritz or from the GM who happened to write that particular line in MCO (Or whatever book ) both ways it is not your talent that finds the "best" move but a 3rd party.
Naturally our view will be in a minority on RHP because so many players here do use the artificial stimulant of outside help.
I myself used to use an opening book (BCO in my case) and remember the occasion when I beat a very highly ranked player(Engine User + top 3 from memory) on RHP without leaving the book once! so there are times when an opening book CAN be just as powerful as playing with the help of an engine
Woooooooooooo Wooooooooooooooooooooo
🙂
This whole debate on cheating has only made things worse. I have now become paranoid about who might be cheating. I haven't won a game since I cam back from Holiday, which I have found odd (But maybe alcohol does kill brain cells.) And I would swear that at least 3 of the people I played used some sort of assistance given the quality of their moves changed during the game. Once they got in trouble, suddenly they started making really good moves. But maybe I am paranoid, perhaps I've just gone daft.
I never thought about cheating before all this debate. I always thought some people would because someone always does. But in general I thought folks would use the stuff between the ears. To get better at any sort of game that requires thought, you actually need to think. Use a book as a guide really doesn't count as thinking. Its sort of like saying you've memorized the perodic table and you can quote any elements symbol if the chart is in front of you. Just because it is allowed in the TOS doesn't eliminate the fact that your not playing based on your ability. Call that what your will.
Ok...I will stop the rant.
Originally posted by CrowleyLOL! Actually, while I have never so much as read a book on chess or used a database, I HAVE studied the games of other players as a learning tool. I learned my strongest openings by studying the games of other players here. 😀
So if a much higher rated opponent uses a strange opening against me, I'm not allowed to use it because I didn't think of it myself?
Then everyone here are cheaters.
Who cares if people cheat anyways?? There never going to be good chess players, maybe in rating but not as a real player (if you know what i mean). Yes, ok. Using books during game play might make you better player in the long run. But isint it much funner to prove to yourself that ratings and books arent needed to win and that you can have more fun by just testing your own skills? Let those losers read between plays! Il kick your but with my bair brains.
Originally posted by Jamie LyonnaisGood god! Are you typing in a Canadian accent or something?
Who cares if people cheat anyways?? There never going to be good chess players, maybe in rating but not as a real player (if you know what i mean). Yes, ok. Using books during game play might make you better player in the long run. But isint it much funner to prove to yourself that ratings and books arent needed to win and that you can have more fun b ...[text shortened]... ing your own skills? Let those losers read between plays! Il kick your but with my bair brains.
Originally posted by Jamie Lyonnais'bare brains', as you so picturesquely put it, will only take you so far. you can bet your life that Kasparov, Fischer, Deep Blue and every other GM ever have studied openings extensively. Of course, for guys with this kind of prodigious talent it becomes possible not only to study openings but to improve upon them. the real fun starts after the opening anyway i think, when you truly do get a chance to use your skills in combinatiuonal and positional play. at that point, the chances are that you are beyond the help of books and databases. that is why, i believe, it is ok to use these and not engines, which can assist throughout the entire game.
Who cares if people cheat anyways?? There never going to be good chess players, maybe in rating but not as a real player (if you know what i mean). Yes, ok. Using books during game play might make you better player in the long run. But isint it much funner to prove to yourself that ratings and books arent needed to win and that you can have more fun b ...[text shortened]... ing your own skills? Let those losers read between plays! Il kick your but with my bair brains.