3 times same position, how do i claim a draw?

The software will not bring it to your attention.

An additional link will need to be clicked to check if a 3 move repetition has occurred. But if it has, the game can then be declared a draw with no intervention from the opponent.

-Russ

Originally posted by Russ
The software will not bring it to your attention.

An additional link will need to be clicked to check if a 3 move repetition has occurred. But if it has, the game can then be declared a draw with no intervention from the opponent.

-Russ

Fair enough. I thought when you said 'illustrate' you meant that it would somehow only be visible if the code detected a repetition.

Sorry, I said illustrate because I would literally illustrate the repetitions.

A preview example where a repetition has occurred :

http://www.redhotpawn.com/core/thirdposcheck.php?gameid=155944

Change the game id on the URL to try more games.

-Russ

Originally posted by Redmike
I would disagree with the software pointing out a 3-fold repetition. Its the player's responsibility to claim it without assistance.

I agree with Redmike. I hope that the page or link will only confirm a 3-fold repetition and make the draw offer. But once you hit the button, if a 3-fold repetition is confirmed by the program, the game should then be drawn.

I guess I'm saying:
a) The program should not automatically point out a 3-fold repetition. The player should hit the button if he thinks a 3-fold rep has occured.
b) Once you hit the button to offer the draw, it should be an automatic draw if the program finds the 3-fold rep has occurred.
c) Once you hit the button, it should be considered a 'draw offer' even if a 3-fold rep has not occurred, such that your opponent can accept the draw offer (assuming this agrees with FIDE rules)

---later addition - you guys beat me to it.

Originally posted by Russ
Sorry, I said illustrate because I would literally illustrate the repetitions.

A preview example where a repetition has occurred :

http://www.redhotpawn.com/core/thirdposcheck.php?gameid=155944

Change the game id on the URL to try more games.

-Russ

Superceded by this :

[link removed]

This is tested and live. (But there is no link...yet)

-Russ

hey, this is one of my games! 😕 my 2nd or so here at RHP! 😀 🙂 😀 long long time ago 😏
to check the threefold repetiotion it's sufficent to check it for all moves since move nb = max{last casteling(b/w), actualMove-moves since last capure/pawn move} (since pawnmoves can't be taken back! same with captures)
very curious what will come... (50 moves rule? perpetual check? = 3fold rep.)
🙂
th

This is now live.

A link exists next to analyse game on the board view. I would welcome any feedback. Although well tested, I'm am fallible, so any issues, just let me know.

-Russ

Originally posted by Russ
I'm am fallible -Russ

the game that started this thread is now resolved!

thanks russ, i presume you did this just for me 😏

Russ-- a couple of things.

1. Thanks for trying to implement this. It will be a great feature.

2. I have concerns about the way it works right now. According to the official rules, a draw for threefold repetition can only be claimed immediately after it occurs. The rules say:
___________
10.10
The game is drawn, upon a claim by the player having the move, when the same position, for the third time:
(a)
is about to appear, if he first writes the move on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention of making this move; or
(b)
has just appeared, the same player having the move each time.
The position is considered the same if pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares, and if all the possible moves of all the pieces are the same, including the rights to castle [at some future time] or to capture a pawn "en passant".

10.11
If a player executes a move without having claimed a draw for one of the reasons stated in Article 10.10, he loses the right to claim a draw. This right is restored to him, however, if the same position [later] appears again, the same player having the move. "
________

The stipulation in Article 10.11 seems important to me, because if a draw can be claimed at any time, by either player, after a threefold repetition has occurred, this will mean that either player can immediately bail out of a game that takes a turn for the worse and come out with a draw.

In other words, once I spot a repetition, I have the power to end the game whenever I feel like it, be it one move or thirty moves down the road. I don't think this is good. So if there's some way you could make the repetition draw claimable only on the move it occurs or the move after, that would be great.

Originally posted by jgvaccaro
2. I have concerns about the way it works right now. According to the official rules, a draw for threefold repetition can only be claimed immediately after it occurs. The rules say:
...

this is very important! and it means less work for the server: he just has to check all positions since the last casteling and last pawnmove/caputre (he knows them all as he knows the FEN).
th

Originally posted by Russ
This is now live.

A link exists next to analyse game on the board view. I would welcome any feedback. Although well tested, I'm am fallible, so any issues, just let me know.

-Russ

what happens if there is a three-fold repetition? Is there somewhere a button "claim draw"? I checked my (old) game and did not see any.
th

Originally posted by jgvaccaro
Russ-- a couple of things.

1. Thanks for trying to implement this. It will be a great feature.

2. I have concerns about the way it works right now. According to the official rules, a draw for threefold repetition can only be claimed immediately after it occurs. The rules say:
___________
10.10
The game is drawn, upon a claim by the player hav ...[text shortened]... e repetition draw claimable only on the move it occurs or the move after, that would be great.

I agree. Strictly speaking, the player trying to claim the draw has to say something like 'I'm about to play <a move> which will repeat the position 3 times. I claim a draw.'. I'm not sure how to replicate this.
However, you shouldn't be able to claim after the event. If you don't claim when you make the move, it ain't a draw.
Also, does your algorithm for recognising the repetition take account of whose move it is? This makes it difference - it has to be the same position with the same player to move.
Sorry if I sound like I'm being picky - its great to have this option, but the rules around this aren't straitforward.

>> Also, does your algorithm for recognising the repetition take account of whose move it is?

Yes it does. En passant and castling are also recognised.

Right, I thought I had everything covered there - but this has made it a little more, um, 'interesting'. I have removed the link until I have had time to ponder this (and how best to implement it.)

-Russ