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  1. Standard member Ravello
    The RudeĀ©
    13 Jun '04 16:35
    I propose Automatic timeout for all games.

    As pointed in another thread ,automatic T/O after two days the time control expired in tourny games, is just a non sense,it should be automatic for every kind of game,without the two days delay.
    This should stop whining in forums and vacation flag abuse.
    I play usually 3 daysT/O with no T/B and happened several times that some opponents put theV.F. on just for one or two days,so I don't timeout them during weekends.

    At the start of a game the agreed time control is like a contract to respect,if you're not able to respect it,don't pick up the invite or don't join the tournament.

    Also a limited number of times that vacation flag is raised in a year period should be good.

    Just an old idea........
  2. 13 Jun '04 18:40
    I disagree, shouldn't chess be relaxing?

    I think it's best the way it is, there are automatic TO's in tournament, where other people are waiting and there aren't any in normal, clan and siege games, which are up to yourself.

    Nothing wrong with going on vacation...

    O.
  3. Standard member Ravello
    The RudeĀ©
    13 Jun '04 18:56 / 1 edit
    I agree with you saying chess should be relaxing.

    My point is that if I put invites with 3 daysT/O noT/B,then my opponent doesn't move for 5 days,I timeout him and then he comes with messages or in forums whining about the timeout.
    With auto T/O this is avoided.

    Also I've nothing against vacation,but I speak for personal experience:I've met players putting on vacation flag for 1 or 2 days and this just don't make sense to me,that's not holiday.
    Maybe there should be a 2 days postponement for weekends,as seen on Gameknot.

    P.S.you say it is right only in tournys games because of people waiting...............and sieges?
  4. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    13 Jun '04 19:05
    I'm all for auto time outs. People need to organise their play a lot better. As for vacations, of course people are going to have time where they can't play and I believe this should stop the clock - BUT this should only be allowed to be used once a month. None of this turning the flag on every few days.
  5. Standard member mrmist
    Moo
    13 Jun '04 19:29
    Originally posted by Exy
    I'm all for auto time outs. People need to organise their play a lot better. As for vacations, of course people are going to have time where they can't play and I believe this [b]should stop the clock - BUT this should only be allowed to be used once a month. None of this turning the flag on every few days.[/b]
    By all means have an auto time-out, but I don't agree that vacation flagging should stop the clock. if you are going away then you should plan your chess games accordingly. The vacation flag is too open to abuse otherwise.
  6. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    13 Jun '04 19:32 / 1 edit
    It wouldn't be abused if people realised that it had limited use. Most people have the odd week or two holiday and I don't think games should be lost because of that.

    OK, how about this - that Vacation Flag is, in itself, an extended timebank but it only lasts for 30 days, once it's been on for that amount of time, that's it, you can't use it again until next year.
  7. Standard member mrmist
    Moo
    13 Jun '04 19:35
    Originally posted by Exy
    It wouldn't be abused if people realised that it had limited use. Most people have the odd week or two holiday and I don't think games should be lost because of that.

    OK, how about this - that Vacation Flag is, in itself, an extended timebank but it only lasts for 30 days, once it's been on for that amount of time, that's it, you can't use it again until next year.
    Fine as far as it goes, but then fails if people take more than 30 days away from the net each year (which is not impossible, if unlikely).

    I do not know. I see no problem in the current vacation system really.
  8. Donation mwmiller
    RHP Member No.16
    13 Jun '04 19:38
    Maybe the vacation flag needs to have a limit placed on it. Something like 30 calendar days per year. When the 30 days are used up, it's gone for the remainder of the year. On the first day of January, all are reset to 30 days again.

    I cannot prove it, but I suspect the vast majority of RHP members do not receive more than 30 days of holiday time per year.
  9. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    13 Jun '04 19:39
    There are two problems with the current vacation system.

    1) It doesn't prevent people who are genuinely away from being timed out maliciously.

    2) It allows people who aren't genuinely away to abuse it in the hope that soft people won't time them out while their flag is on.

    What would be ultimately better is that putting the flag on stops the clock - BUT you are only allowed to use this in a very limited fashion, 10 days / 14 days / 30 days maximum.

    I honestly believe if this was the case people would reserve using the vacation flag for the times when they genuinely were away and couldn't move and in that case they shouldn't be timed out.
  10. Donation mwmiller
    RHP Member No.16
    13 Jun '04 20:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Exy
    There are two problems with the current vacation system.

    1) It doesn't prevent people who are genuinely away from being timed out maliciously.

    2) It allows people who aren't genuinely away to abuse it in the hope that soft people won't ...[text shortened]... and couldn't move and in that case they shouldn't be timed out.
    Now that sounds like exactly the right combination!

    1. When the vacation flag is turned on, the t/o and t/b clocks stop. When it is turned off, all game clocks start again exactly where they were when stopped.

    2. The vacation flag can be used for a fixed number of calendar days. When those days are used up, that option is gone for the rest of the year. It is reset on the first day of each year.

    3. When the t/o and t/b clocks both hit zero, the game is over automatically. No exceptions.

    Now all we have to do is convince Russ/Chrismo.
  11. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    13 Jun '04 20:08 / 1 edit
    The only other proviso would be that whilst the Vacation Flag is on it is not possible for a player to move.
  12. 13 Jun '04 21:10
    I have to say I think everything is fine just the way it is. Russ has good thinking in why he refuses to change to auto timeout. There's a lot of things I don't think you all are considering here. For one, vacation status isn't just for holiday. Say it is changed to the way you are proposing, and vacation status is only available for 30 days out of the year. I go on my 3 week vacation which consists of 23 days. Then I get the flu and I'm stuck in bed for 3 days. Then someone ups and quits at my work so I am working double time to cover shifts and the last thing I want to do when I get home is play my games. THEN some bozo rams my car and I'm in the hospital for a week. THEN I'm not working and money is tight so I can't afford internet access for a month. What I am trying to get at is there are a lot of reasons people are forced away from the site and putting a time limit on correspondence chess is unfair.

    Now on the other hand, it's my opponent who is having this amazingly terrible year. I have the decision of taking the win while he's away. If it really urks me that he is going to complain about losing the game when he gets back, well I don't HAVE to take that win. I'll just take another game to compensate it. If I DO decide to take the win, well if he wants to complain, it's also my decision on whether it will bother me or not. He messages me a mean remark about my selfish actions while he was laid up in the hospital. You know what? I think I'll just delete that little bugger and forget about it. I see a thread entitled "timeout while I was on vacation" or something of the sorts and you know what? I ignore it. Let them have their little argument and get it over with.

    Let me tell you how I deal with the whole thing. November last year, I couldn't afford internet access for a month. I came back and had tons of timeouts and my rating was terrible. I started playing games and built it back up. I claimed a timeout on an opponent in a tournament while he had his vacation flag up the other day. He came back and messaged me "thanks a lot!" I deleted the message and went about my business. I claim timeouts when I feel like it and deal with it when I get them claimed on me. Both sides you can choose to let it bother you, or you can choose to enjoy the game.

    I personally think that arguing about changing the way it is done only adds more to the problem, it's not going to solve anything. Someone will find a problem with the system however it's done, not everybody is always going to be happy with it. So be it. I am going now to play some chess!

    ncrosby
  13. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    13 Jun '04 21:16 / 2 edits
    Yes, well, that aside, we're actually trying to find a way of improving the current system.

    If someone cannot play then I think that they should be able to put on their flag which stops them from being timed out, but it also stops them from making moves. They cannot move again until they take the flag off.

    The flag can only be put on ONCE per month.

    I am 100% confident that such a rule would stop all abuse of the vacation flag within the first month of it being enforced.
  14. 13 Jun '04 21:28
    Yes, you could do that, but then someone ELSE is going to find something wrong with THAT system and there will still be the same problems going on with complaining and arguing and all. This is a neverending problem that will never be changed to everyone's satisfaction.

    If you see a problem with a certain person over using the vacation flag then by all means, time him out. Simple as that. If he messages you, ignore it. If he harrasses you message Russ about it. The nice thing about the way things are now is you have a choice to deal with your games as you please.

    Maybe outline in your profile how you handle time, timeouts, vacation status, e.t.c. If people have a problem with it they don't have to play you.

    There are a lot of possibilities of how to deal with all of this the way it is is all I am trying to say.

    ncrosby
  15. Standard member mrmist
    Moo
    13 Jun '04 21:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Exy

    I am 100% confident that such a rule would stop all abuse of the vacation flag within the first month of it being enforced.
    I should be careful with those "100%" statements

    I'm with ncrosby on this one. The system works as it is except with a few exceptions where people are apparently "abusing" the vacation flag.

    The way I see it though, there is no way you can abuse the vacation flag as it stands at the minute, because it does not *do* anything. If the power of the vacation flag was altered so that it freezes clocks, then this would cause *more* abuse, not less, surely?

    I do not see why the vacation system should be altered in a way that might be detrimental to the masses, purely to be less abusable in a few cases.


    That said, I see no reason why automatic timeout should not be a settable option (per game).