Conditional move Q&A

Originally posted by DeepThought
Thanks for putting this feature in, I´ll definitely find it useful.

I´ve got a suitable game and have just put a few conditional moves. As a test I tried storing an obviously illegal move and it wouldn´t let me. This is not the right behaviour as it is an aide to calculation - if you´re analysis is flawed due to a pawn being pinned or whatever then ...[text shortened]... deep, but not the quick conditional move feature (as with the quick one it´s already too late).

Analyzing in WinBoard or ChessBase is legal, right? They both refuse illegal moves instantly. RHP's interface should follow suit.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Thanks for putting this feature in, I´ll definitely find it useful.

I´ve got a suitable game and have just put a few conditional moves. As a test I tried storing an obviously illegal move and it wouldn´t let me. This is not the right behaviour as it is an aide to calculation - if you´re analysis is flawed due to a pawn being pinned or whatever then ...[text shortened]... deep, but not the quick conditional move feature (as with the quick one it´s already too late).

There are no rules against using an external piece of software, like chesspad (with engine off) to analyse your games, AFAIK.

D

[edit] Oh, never spotted SG's post.

Deleted.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Analyzing in WinBoard or ChessBase is legal, right? They both refuse illegal moves instantly. RHP's interface should follow suit.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
There are no rules against using an external piece of software, like chesspad (with engine off) to analyse your games, AFAIK.

D

That´s not something I thought of - I usually just use the site provided analysis board which doesn´t warn you of illegal moves. On the whole I feel that the site interface should not warn you of illegal moves until the position is current, but obviously it´s less important than I thought.

Drat, I´ll have to stop going for so many cheap tactical shots.

Originally posted by DeepThought
That´s not something I thought of - I usually just use the site provided analysis board which doesn´t warn you of illegal moves. On the whole I feel that the site interface should not warn you of illegal moves until the position is current, but obviously it´s less important than I thought.

Drat, I´ll have to stop going for so many cheap tactical shots.

I feel if the analysis board doesn't check, neither should the conditional feature. Some people even try to figure out conditions using their head, or a wood board, or a notebook even. If they put an illegal move in and don't use winboard or any other legal device, they should not be warned... figure it out on their own.

P-

Originally posted by Phlabibit
I feel if the analysis board doesn't check, neither should the conditional feature. Some people even try to figure out conditions using their head, or a wood board, or a notebook even. If they put an illegal move in and don't use winboard or any other legal device, they should not be warned... figure it out on their own.

P-

The analysis board doesn't even do en passant, castling or promotion automatically, nor stop you from playing two white moves in a row, etc. It's probably worse than using a real board and pieces - you get distracted trying to get the interface to work [manually removing the promoted or en passanted pawn, etc..]

Those who rely on the analysis board deserve what they get. 😛

Edit: More on topic, I'd prefer RHP's analysis board and conditional moves to operate more like chessbase does. All special moves done automatically, legality checked, drag and drop piece movement option, notes and variations saved [yes, I realize this is a lot of work].

As it stands, these are strong incentives to analyze and store outside of RHP and duplicate that analysis within the RHP interface.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
The analysis board doesn't even do en passant, castling or promotion automatically, nor stop you from playing two white moves in a row, etc. It's probably worse than using a real board and pieces - you get distracted trying to get the interface to work [manually removing the promoted or en passanted pawn, etc..]

Those who rely on the analysis board de ...[text shortened]... es to analyze and store outside of RHP and duplicate that analysis within the RHP interface.

A friend of mine who used to play on RHP used the analyse board feature to set up "fantasy positions" as Silman refers to them. To him, the current analyse board was ideal (obviously exluding the fact that, castling, en passent and promotion should be automatic).

But I agree, while no rules exist to prevent one from analysing using external software (no engine) then there isn't much sense in not having the option to turn on rule enforcement on the analyse board.

Having said that enforcing rules on analyse board is a help, ie: someone's task in finding the only legal move is made easier, and so should possibly be excluded as it is now. Although then, we're playing correspondence chess, and not OTB.

I guess I'd have to put my position on enforcing rules in the analyse board screen as Strongly Ambivalent.

D

I, and a lot of other people I'd imagine, use the analysis board as a replacement for a real one when I don't have it handy. Having something that understands the rules is like playing out on a chess computer and is a different feature entirely.

Russ, how do I program en passant as a conditional move? I can't seem to get it to work.

Originally posted by Lukerik
I, and a lot of other people I'd imagine, use the analysis board as a replacement for a real one when I don't have it handy. Having something that understands the rules is like playing out on a chess computer and is a different feature entirely.

100% agreed. It's fine when the game board doesn't accept illegal moves -- I don't need the analysis board to check that too. Everbody playing here should know at least how pieces move!

Originally posted by trev33
will it be possible in the future to be able to continue the game with 3 or 4 conditional move in the same sequence?

a lot of games come up where you know the next 3 or so moves it would be nice if you where able to skip them while you weren't playing.

I have tried this in the deep mode and it should carry as the end result of the first conditional move would be the start of the second. Is easier if the opponent only has a limited number of moves they can make, else you would have to setup all different combinations.

Dont know if anyone else would find it useful but would it be possible to have an indicator showing what games had conditional moves against them instead of having to look at all conditional moves in the left hand column? Perhaps the game ID number could change colour or something.

Originally posted by Stork69
Dont know if anyone else would find it useful but would it be possible to have an indicator showing what games had conditional moves against them instead of having to look at all conditional moves in the left hand column? Perhaps the game ID number could change colour or something.

i was thinking something similar...i would like a message somewhere saying that a conditional move had been made.

I am probably being thick here, but when I go into conditional moves do I need to set my first move (the one I was going to play) as a conditional move? After that do I need to save each move as a seperate conditional move (in other words conditional moves as compared to a conditional combination)?

Originally posted by Huntingdon
I am probably being thick here, but when I go into conditional moves do I need to set my first move (the one I was going to play) as a conditional move? After that do I need to save each move as a seperate conditional move (in other words conditional moves as compared to a conditional combination)?

Conditionals have two modes - quick and deep.
In both cases what you are doing is creating a position (rather than a specific move to get to that position) that will trigger a defined move.

In deep mode, first you set the board up for the triggering position - move as many pieces around as you like. When you have found the position that you want to respond to, then click the 'record conditional move' link and make the move (needs to be your own piece moved of course) you want to make in response to the position you created. Hit the 'submit conditional move' button and the position is stored away along with the move to make (you should see this as a couple of little boards with the triggering position on the left and the move to respond on the right).
You can use the next and previous buttons to skip through different positions you arrive at on the board (bit like the analysis board) and at any time record and submit new conditionals.

Quick mode can only be used when it's not your go and the interface works slightly differently. Make the move you're expecting your opponent to make and then make the move you'd like to make in response and then hit the submit button.

To set another conditional in quick mode, click the 'start again' link and do the same thing again - opponents expected move - your response - submit.

Hope this helps / makes sense.