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1.  The Swine Down Hope
The 3rd Coming
04 Sep '04 21:10
RE: provisional points calculation (games 5 to 20)

Rating down when you win!

Rating going up when you lose!

Bit crazy and easily resolved by caping the points that go in the average calculation.

How?

My rating is roughly about 1430, if I lose to ThePO (an occurance likely to happen soon) rating 2138 then 2138 - 400 = 1738 gets added to the average cal and rating goes up.

So just cap loss contributions to current rating, and on win contribution set minimum of current rating - PROBLEM SOLVED
2.  SirLoseALot
Shut Gorohoviy!
04 Sep '04 21:58
Originally posted by The Swine Down Hope
RE: provisional points calculation (games 5 to 20)

Rating down when you win!

Rating going up when you lose!

Bit crazy and easily resolved by caping the points that go in the average calculation.

How?

My rating is roughly about 1430, if I lose to ThePO (an occurance likely to happen soon) rating 2138 then 2138 - 400 = 1738 gets a ...[text shortened]... utions to current rating, and on win contribution set minimum of current rating - PROBLEM SOLVED
To solve a problem,first there must be a problem.Weirdness of provisional ratings do not qualify as a problem in my book.I think it's quite fun,you get a rating increase when you lose.Enjoy it while it lasts 😀
3.  The Swine Down Hope
The 3rd Coming
04 Sep '04 23:41
Would you advocate some kind of random points allocation after the provisional period also?

ps No implied criticism of the site (the site is v. cool - worth inventing the internet for) just that's there no need for the confusing rate movements.
4.  SirLoseALot
Shut Gorohoviy!
05 Sep '04 08:46
Originally posted by The Swine Down Hope
Would you advocate some kind of random points allocation after the provisional period also?

ps No implied criticism of the site (the site is v. cool - worth inventing the internet for) just that's there no need for the confusing rate movements.
No.
5.  Ravello
05 Sep '04 17:02
Originally posted by The Swine Down Hope
Would you advocate some kind of random points allocation after the provisional period also?

ps No implied criticism of the site (the site is v. cool - worth inventing the internet for) just that's there no need for the confusing rate movements.
What do you mean with ''random points allocation''?
6.  TheMaster37
Kupikupopo!
05 Sep '04 20:07
That statement is irrelevant, since that does not take place on this site once you have cleared the provisionals.
7.  orfeo
Missing 285 + 1
06 Sep '04 08:05
The whole point of the provisional system is that the result of a small number of games does not really resolve what your rating should be.

You give the example of losing to a very highly ranked player. When you've played so few games, it's unclear whether you lost because you are slightly worse than that player (ie quite highly-ranked, but not so high as your opponent) or because they thrashed the living daylights out of you. The provisional calculation aims at a compromise.

The same thing happens if you beat a low-ranked player. Are you ranked just above them or were you using them for fly-swatting practice? Too hard to tell without a reasonable number of other results.

I say enjoy the sensation of gaining ranking points with a loss while you can. Rest assured it does not last long!
8.  The Swine Down Hope
The 3rd Coming
07 Sep '04 23:07
You give the example of losing to a very highly ranked player. When you've played so few games, it's unclear whether you lost because you are slightly worse than that player (ie quite highly-ranked, but not so high as your opponent) or because they thrashed the living daylights out of you
Exactly! So is it better for the provisional rating to go up or to stay the same?

The rating calculation can be changed to stay the same simply by capping the max contribution (when losing) to the current rating.

More logical and less confusing to new players😕
9.  The Swine Down Hope
The 3rd Coming
07 Sep '04 23:19
ps what we are discussing here is actually bayesian probability theory where the rating acts as a proxy for the probability of winning a game.

Hence given the information that a player has lost to a highly rated player, should their new probability go up or down? Well for the reasons you give above they shouldn't change much, but certainly not go up.
10.  orfeo
Missing 285 + 1
08 Sep '04 03:57 / 1 edit
A rating going higher is simply a compromise between the two possibilities I mentioned (you're playing highly ranked players because it's a good contest, or because you like getting whipped).

I don't see WHY it can't go up, a little (I've yet to see a rating rise sharply due to a loss). You're going to have to explain a lot of probability theory to convince me there is an inherent problem with the current system. You seem to be appealing to ideas of intuitive fairness, not maths. If there's one thing I learnt about probability theory, it's often counter-intuitive!

Also I doubt the 'problem' is really that significant. Yes it could be manipulated a little by playing only highly-ranked players, but what's the point? Once you cease to be a provisional player, an inflated rating would rapidly be corrected.