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  1. 07 Aug '04 09:38
    There are many relatively minor tweaks and amendments proposed in this Forum some of which are adopted and others which fall on deaf ears.

    It should be remembered that the site is not a democracy, more of a benign dictatorship. This should not be viewed as a criticism, nor am I saying it should be any different.

    There are two issues however (there may be more) which are important and which crop up over and over again without it would seem being satisfactorily resolved i.e. 'time outs' and 'vacation flags'
    together with the associated etiquette and procedures. These issues are sometimes connected and sometimes stand alone.

    So, here is a suggestion RUSS. How about setting up a group of, say five, people with an additional person to chair the group to look in depth at the issues and advise you on the way forward.

    I see no reason why a small group could not communicate effectively using the PM system and whilst I have my own ideas about who should form the group, you will know better than I the people to whom you could entrust such a task.

    No system will please everybody but at least the members could feel that they had an input.

    🙂
  2. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    07 Aug '04 10:02 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by colleman
    It should be remembered that the site is not a democracy, more of a benign dictatorship. This should not be viewed as a criticism, nor am I saying it should be any different.
    For those of us that have subscribed this site is also a service provider and as such I think it's right and proper that all customers can make comment and suggestions on the service we pay for, via the forum or in PMs to the Admins on any subject, and not just a limited hand picked few.
  3. 07 Aug '04 10:37
    Originally posted by Exy
    For those of us that have subscribed this site is also a [b]service provider and as such I think it's right and proper that all customers can make comment and suggestions on the service we pay for, via the forum or in PMs to the Admins on any subject, and not just a limited hand picked few.[/b]
    Nobody is trying to stop you commenting - where did you get that wierd idea from?

    😕
  4. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    07 Aug '04 10:41 / 2 edits
    My point is that if Vacation Flags / Time Outs are to be discussed and a better solution to be found then why not have an open discussion here that everyone can take part in? Why do you think it's ok to limit it to a 5 person pow wow? Obviously you would consider yourself suitable for one of the 5 but why exclude the rest of the community who all have an equal and valid opinion.

    It would be interesting to see if some sort of polling system could be introduced just how people would vote on auto-timeouts and the functionality of vacation flags. As you said these debates go on and on periodically and it seems that opinion on both is widely split. However, a small consensus seems to be emerging regarding vacation flags, they are for info only and time outs really can only be prevented by accepting challenges with longer time outs/banks.
  5. 07 Aug '04 11:19
    Originally posted by Exy
    My point is that if Vacation Flags / Time Outs are to be discussed and a better solution to be found then why not have an open discussion here that everyone can take part in? Why do you think it's ok to limit it to a 5 person pow wow? Obviously you would consider yourself suitable for one of the 5 but why exclude the rest of the community who all have an equa ...[text shortened]... and time outs really can only be prevented by accepting challenges with longer time outs/banks.
    The debate has been going on and on and on for a long time. You must have noticed, you have taken part in it.

    You seem to have some aversion to a working party coming up with proposals - proposals mark you, not directives - which can then be subject of as much discussion as you wish.

    There is a lot of talent on this site and I think Russ should take advantage of it.

    No, I do not consider myself suitable for inclusion in the group (that was a cheap shot) because I hold such trenchant views on the subject, just like somebody else I know.

    🙂
  6. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    07 Aug '04 11:26 / 4 edits
    I think that Russ and Chris are quite capable of assessing the opinions expressed and taking them on board and deciding how best to improve the site, they have done a pretty good job so far. I'm not sure how this online working party could be fairly picked as like us, most people hold an opinion on this subject based on their recent current experience, whether they have been timed out or timed someone out who they felt was abusing the flag.

    It's a fact of life that people's opinions are subject to change due to the circumstances they find themselves in. There were certain clan members who were once vehemently polyclanist, for example, until they became clan leader's and they're own clans started to perform, suddenly they felt a lot more monoclanist. I think all we can do is continue to put across our points of view, if nothing else, it helps to vent the current frustration we may be feeling at the time.

    😀
  7. 07 Aug '04 12:03
    Originally posted by Exy
    I think that Russ and Chris are quite capable of assessing the opinions expressed and taking them on board and deciding how best to improve the site, they have done a pretty good job so far. I'm not sure how this online working party could be fairly picked as like us, most people hold an opinion on this subject based on their recent current experience, whether ...[text shortened]... , if nothing else, it helps to vent the current frustration we may be feeling at the time.

    😀
    Russ and Chris are very capable people and this is a fantastic site of which they should be very proud.

    It is a very common practice for capable ( and busy ) people to ask a working group to look at difficult issues in detail, to consider all opinions and come up with proposals.

    I would certainly be letting such a group know my opinion as I am sure you and any other interested party would.

    I still do not understand your objections especially when you do not have a positive proposal of your own other than to prolong the debate indefinately.

    🙂
  8. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    07 Aug '04 12:09 / 4 edits
    I have stopped taking part in such debates, by and large, because it is clear that the opinion is so widely polarised. I have stated my view, I don't want to continue repeating myself. I am sure that Russ and Chris are fully aware of the pros and cons and most likely believe that the status quo is currently the system that works best.

    All I, or anyone can do, is act according to their own opinion. To that end my profile states that I claim time outs immediately regardless of vacation flag. I also don't use the flag at all myself as I manage my time banks accordingly, if I am eventually timed out (and I have yet to be since I subscribed) I won't moan about it publically as I accept it is the way the system works.

    Now, depiste my approach to this, I agree that it's a flawed system that could be improved and made more fair. However, these suggestions have not been widely recommended so I accept the will of the mass and carry on in my own sweet way. A further 'talking shop' albeit small and official might help matters but I'm not convinced you can please everyone as the opinon is so divided.
  9. 07 Aug '04 20:49
    I think that colleman means also to say that Russ and Chris are very capable people.
    But they can not keep track off every thread going on in the forum. If a small group (5 people colleman suggested) do some in deeped research, to find out the opinion off the players for a specific topic (e.g. vacation flags or time outs). And then report to Russ and Chris about what kind of opinions/reactions they found on the forum. That way Russ and Chris can decide what to improve and how. It saves time for Russ and Chris ...

    So the group is only going to research the opinions according to the threads in this forum and report them. And not giving only there own opinion. All opinions and suggestions written in this forum will be included to what they report back. So every post is concluded in the report.

    I think that point of colleman is what you are missing, Exy.
  10. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    07 Aug '04 20:54 / 2 edits
    I'm not missing that at all. I know that Russ and Chirs are very perceptive and pick up on most of the salient points that occur in the forums.

    I am not trying to blow cold on Colleman's idea, I just think that so much opinion has been vocalised on these subjects that the Admins cannot have failed to pick up on the general feeling and that setting up (how I'm not at all sure) some kind of "Think Tank" to deal with it can't possibly add much.

    Still, go ahead, if you must, and let me know who I am to post my ideas to.
  11. 08 Aug '04 08:24
    There is obviously a problem with the time out and vacation settings on RHP which, despite debates as to the rights and wrongs of it, Chris and Russ are definitely looking to make changes from the feedback I've received from them. I think a working party may be helpful to them if they haven't already worked out a good solution.
    I think despite some arguments for keeping the system as it is, it is obvious that unless you play like myself and other MAP players, some games will take months to complete. To work out your life ahead of this around timeouts and timebanks is bordering on the ridiculous. So as a clan leader I am in the situation of usually giving my members 3 day TO/28 TB in case they go away, however that may slow a fastish moving game down towards the end.
    I'm very aware of the fact that RHP is losing players to gameknot and that seems mostly to do with the time system. I am certain that if the time and vacation settings are changed we would see that draw of gameknot changing and us drawing their members 🙂.
  12. Standard member NicolaiS
    Cannabist
    08 Aug '04 11:03
    Russ an Chrismo are doing a great job running the site. Everybody agrees about that.

    Almost every day new ideas spring to the minds of us "perfectionists". We love the site and want it to become better and better.

    In order to make suggestions lots of members post in the forums expressing their ideas which most of the times lead to (heated) discussions. We all know the examples of "clan leagues" and "Time-outs".

    I am sure both Russ and Chrismo read all of those suggestions and use them in their own plans and ideas. So is it really needed to have a Thinktank which researches the ideas brought forward and advice Russ and Chrismo about the outcome of Thinktanks conclusion.

    I think Russ and Chrismo are perfectly capable of making the decisions needed to evolve Red Hot Pawn even further. But the idea by Colleman certainly has some potential.

    To run the forums and keep them clean form trolls a number of members are helping Russ and Chrismo as moderators ( hated by some, loved by many ;-) ).

    Couldn't this Thinktank function like the moderators do? I.e. any idea's brought forward in the forums, where it is discussed by every member who likes to discus it, come to the attention of the Thinktank. The idea or suggestion can be evaluated without the need for Russ or Chrismo to get into the matter to deeply until the idea can be presented with all pro's and con's.

    Is it absolutely necessary? I don't think it really is ... but it might just give some more direction to the discussion we had about known problems and suggestions on how to solve them.
  13. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    08 Aug '04 11:05
    All I can see is many heated discussions taking place on what qualifies a person to be a member of this Think Tank and once it's set up how it would function.
  14. Standard member NicolaiS
    Cannabist
    08 Aug '04 11:09
    Originally posted by Exy
    All I can see is many heated discussions taking place on what qualifies a person to be a member of this Think Tank and once it's set up how it would function.
    Well .. that could be the very first assignement for the Thinktank ... decided who will be in it 😀
  15. Standard member Exy
    Damn fine Clan!
    08 Aug '04 11:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by NicolaiS
    Well .. that could be the very first assignement for the Thinktank ... decided who will be in it 😀
    I think that a polling functionality would be of interest. That way you can get a meaningful show of hands on these controversial subjects, avoid the heated, and sometimes abusive, mud-slinging but see where the majority view lies.