Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The ratings would then be slightly more accurate so no it is not really a stupid idea at all.
But where do you stop? Say you played a cheater and your rating is recalculated. Say I had played you as well, I could then expect our game to be recalculated because your rating is now different to what it should have been in my game. So if your rating is recalculated, everybody who's played you in that time period could also say their rating should be recalculated, which would mean a lot of work.
It's not feasible. The current system while unfair is probably the fairest we can expect.
Originally posted by Sidi But where do you stop? Say you played a cheater and your rating is recalculated. Say I had played you as well, I could then expect our game to be recalculated because your rating is now different to what it should have been in my game. So if your rating is recalculated, everybody who's played you in that time period could also say their rating should be reca ...[text shortened]...
It's not feasible. The current system while unfair is probably the fairest we can expect.
Just a matter of number crunching - which is what computers are best at - it's not as if someone has to sit down with a pencil and notebook to work out each calculation.
It may just be number crunching, but this server runs on php. So you'd have to write a php script to recalculate all the games, this would be have to run constantly due to new people being found to be banned. Running such a script on a large database would take up the processing power needed to deliver the site to us the users, so would effect it's speed. From my experience with Apache servers, this would take up a lot of the cpu utilisation.
Also you'd have the problem of needing to tell people why their rating just changed.
As you said in your first post, probably almost all of us have been affected, so it evens itself out. So we've all lost a few rating points. I really couldn't care.
I have to agree with the others on this one doc. We all are affected by cheaters on this site and others. I think RHP does the best job it can at catching and banning engine users. To go back and re due all the ratings of anyone that ever played a engine user is just about impossible, and anyway you look at it, it would take a great amount of time and money to do so. Sometimes we just have to accept our losses and move on. Our Clan has lost clan matches due to engine users. Sometimes thats just the way the cookie crumbles.
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The ratings would then be slightly more accurate so no it is not really a stupid idea at all.
No they wouldn't. You see the ELO system is self-adjusting. If I lose 100 points playing against a cheater (say 3 games at 32 points each) then I will quite quickly return back to my actual rating because I will gain more points per win due to my lower rating.
Recalculating ratings wouldn't make them more accurate.
Originally posted by XanthosNZ No they wouldn't. You see the ELO system is self-adjusting. If I lose 100 points playing against a cheater (say 3 games at 32 points each) then I will quite quickly return back to my actual rating because I will gain more points per win due to my lower rating.
Recalculating ratings wouldn't make them more accurate.
So, to clarify; you are saying that the rating calculations are just as accurate when false results are included?
Originally posted by Phlabibit He's saying that you played an engine, and lost. You shouldn't get a win against a 2000 rated player regardless that they cheated to beat you.
Your rating is already right regardless who you play. There is no need to change your rating, because you don't know the true rating of the cheater.
You finished games with a cheat, and that sucks... but ...[text shortened]... nks. Rating shouldn't be changed at all. We played a cheater, and did best we could.
P-
I can see the reasoning that rating points shouldn't be awarded for unfinished engine games but it still seems unfair that if you have lost points to them it's ok because;
a] your rating will soon go back to what it was.
or
b]it's too much trouble to sort it out.
Like I said before, I don't worry about ratings myself, other than when I am cheated. If I was seriously concerned I would start using books and databases - I only play for fun really.
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I can see the reasoning that rating points shouldn't be awarded for unfinished engine games but it still seems unfair that if you have lost points to them it's ok because;
a] your rating will soon go back to what it was.
or
b]it's too much trouble to sort it out.
Like I said before, I don't worry about ratings myself, other than when I am c ...[text shortened]... as seriously concerned I would start using books and databases - I only play for fun really.
If you don't care why did you start this thread? And why are you continuing to argue when it is clear that there is no reason to recalculate every single rating because of a cheating player.
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I can see the reasoning that rating points shouldn't be awarded for unfinished engine games but it still seems unfair that if you have lost points to them it's ok because;
a] your rating will soon go back to what it was.
or
b]it's too much trouble to sort it out.
Like I said before, I don't worry about ratings myself, other than when I am c ...[text shortened]... as seriously concerned I would start using books and databases - I only play for fun really.
Well, the real problem is there is no solution. You don't know the real rating of a player.
You played an engine, and sure enough you probably lost. That's that, your rating isn't wrong.
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Maybe, after more games one's rating would revert to 'almost exactly' what it should have been but there would still be an element of falseness to it.
I have lost a number of games after making moves while drunk. I have also lost games due to making bad moves due to being hung-over/tired/stoned/distracted.
These are all false results, and my rating isn't exactly right. I'm certain that my exactly correct rating is 1893.5.
ratings are not all important, enjoying a good game is better. if you think your rating is false due to someone cheating, imgine what it must be like for those that use these engines, what pleasure must they get? What would be the point?
Originally posted by Ragnorak I have lost a number of games after making moves while drunk. I have also lost games due to making bad moves due to being hung-over/tired/stoned/distracted.
These are all false results, and my rating isn't exactly right. I'm certain that my exactly correct rating is 1893.5.
Please fix this.
Thanks,
D
I think you play a lot of drunks with hangovers who make mistakes as a result, therefore your rating should be 1200. (Just kidding) The thing is though you are right, there are many things that can be considered false. Resignations could actually be considered false if someone resigns a game that there would be no way for you to have won otherwise or a time out might artificially inflate or deflate a rating, so it all averages out. If hypothetically we could do as DR. SL suggests then I believe even if it was perfect without any flaws in the calculations whatsoever, there would still be a problem with ratings calculations when enrolling in tournaments, Can you imagine being disqualified from entering a tourney because suddenly your ratings gained or lost a couple hundred points? To me it just wouldn't make sense. There are certain times when fixing a problem can actually create a problem.
Rating points from banned players.
16 Nov '06 00:28
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