Well this book got me playing 1. d4 (and some Kasparov games too) and I think I'll put aside the other books I was reading and just focus on theis one for a good while.
If any of you has read/study it already just tell me what you thought about it. If you want you can show me some reviews too. But please don't show me Silman's one.
I'll use this thread to post things as I get along in the book and hopefuly some discussion can get going in here.
"This leaves black with a very bad position". Now Berliner isn't a patzer that's for sure, but is he exagerating here? It surely seems like it. But what I'm interested in is not just not listening and say he's wrong right on. I want to read what he has to say and at least try to understand ehy he says it.
The System is this one: http://www.amazon.com/System-World-Champions-Approach-Chess/dp/1901983102
I think it is kinda not very known about because the author goes a lot against everyday chess knowledge.
Originally posted by adam warlock So here it is the first bombastic thing he says:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5
[fen]rnbqkb1r/ppp2ppp/5n2/3p4/3P4/2N5/PP2PPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 5[/fen]
"This leaves black with a very bad position". Now Berliner isn't a patzer that's for sure, but is he exagerating here? It surely seems like it. But what I'm interested in is not right on. I want to read what he has to say and at least try to understand ehy he says it.
This system is one of the reasons why black sometimes plays 3...Be7 as after pawn exchange they will use their empo not for knight but to out bishop on f5, before white places their bishop on d3.
To be honest that system seems to be more pleasant for white as black may have problems to get active counter play. But Berliner definitely exagerates.
Originally posted by Mad Rook If Mr. Berliner's assertions are correct, then I would soon expect every top-rated chess engine in the world to start playing nothing but 1d4. 😉
Well engines don't see that far to discern that 1. d4 is indeed better. He gives strategical/positional reasons for it so I guess that's one more factor not to expect 1. d4! to be indeed figured out by today's engines.
I'm not saying he's right but I will definetely study with great care what he has to say and not just ignore him from the outset. One way or the other I'm sure I'll learn a lot.
Originally posted by Korch This system is one of the reasons why black sometimes plays 3...Be7 as after pawn exchange they will use their empo not for knight but to out bishop on f5, before white places their bishop on d3.
To be honest that system seems to be more pleasant for white as black may have problems to get active counter play. But Berliner definitely exagerates.
Yes. He's thing seems to be accumulating small advantages and concessions made by black to get an increasing grip on the board.
And it is the second time I've seen you post Bf5 to black on 1. d4. I never thought about thaty I don't remember seeing it so explicitely stated but it sure seems a great idea. But for instance on the KID maybe it isn't a good idea. Or is it?
Originally posted by adam warlock Well engines don't see that far to discern that 1. d4 is indeed better. He gives strategical/positional reasons for it so I guess that's one more factor not to expect 1. d4! to be indeed figured out by today's engines.
I'm not saying he's right but I will definetely study with great care what he has to say and not just ignore him from the outset. One way or the other I'm sure I'll learn a lot.
Then if that's true, I'd expect people like Mr. Berliner to start beating chess engines like Rybka. I wouldn't put money on that happening, though.
Originally posted by Mad Rook Then if that's true, I'd expect people like Mr. Berliner to start beating chess engines like Rybka. I wouldn't put money on that happening, though.
It's a good thing you aren't dismissing it right away and trying to figure out what he's saying. 😕
Engines can be beat at CC time frames. Engines like Fritz get beat here from time to time but I don't know about Rybka.
Anyway this thread isn't about this. I'll post my thoughts on Berliner's thoughts (and Berliner's thoughts too) and hopefuly with some more thoughts we'll ry to get some meaningful conclusions.
Originally posted by adam warlock It's a good thing you aren't dismissing it right away and trying to figure out what he's saying. 😕
Engines can be beat at CC time frames. Engines like Fritz get beat here from time to time but I don't know about Rybka.
Anyway this thread isn't about this. I'll post my thoughts on Berliner's thoughts (and Berliner's thoughts too) and hopefuly with some more thoughts we'll ry to get some meaningful conclusions.
Who is Berliner anyway? Why would you put much work into a book that's pretty controversial?
Originally posted by diskamyl Who is Berliner anyway? Why would you put much work into a book that's pretty controversial?
Former CC World Champion in a time were there were no chess engines to rely on with a record of 14/16. I think he is more known because of Estrin-Berliner two knights defence were he blasted a well known specialist of the two knights defence on his playground.
But I'll put some work to it because I think one way or the other I'll gain a lot of chess knowledge. I like the way he exposes his thoughts on this book and I like the fact that he is so icnoclastic.
The System
06 Apr '08 14:32
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