Originally posted by !~TONY~!I'm sure you did, but it was so long ago that I don't remember!
I am sure I have given my recommendations before but:
Grunfeld: Exchange with Rb1
KID: 4 Pawns Attack
Benko Gambit: Zaitsev Variation
I'm definitely thinking about using the 4 pawns - I could go buy the Fearsome 4 Pawns at Borders tomorrow too...maybe I should? IDK... 🙁
Grunfeld, maybe, still not entirely sure...but maybe.
Benko: I don't actually know the Zaitsev....looking it up.
Ok, just did...I like it at first glance. I think I might be able to deal with that. I'll have to use it a few times, but it seems interesting.
Originally posted by cmsMasterI find it annoying when White played f3 against my KID. I think it's called the Samisch variation.
Well...yeah...1.d4 is awesome, particularly when black plays 1...d5 and I consult Ward's PTQG lines and play those. Unfortunately, a lot of you bastards like to play 1...Nf6 and make me a little bit miserable - because I don't have deeply prepared lines to play against you.
Anyhow, I need some help with lines to play against 1...Nf6 - and I would like ...[text shortened]... un for me, but I seem to enjoy quiet stuff right now...and I have no idea why.
Originally posted by cmsMasterI used to play the four pawns attack the KID too. As a KID player, not a very good one but one that is eager to learn, I used to think that was the most fearful set up I could face so I turned the tables around when I was on the white side.
Yeah, I was pretty sure that white hasn't looked too good in that recently though, or am I wrong?
Recentely I've entered a Saemich variation tournament and I'm loving it. Both sides of this set up are fun to play. With white the normal plan is to castle queen-side and go for a queen side pawn expansion. and thne things can get pretty wild and tactical. Specially if you play d5 after balck goes for his pawn push.
Edit: Some statistics
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=215582&move=5.5&moves=d4.Nf6.c4.g6.Nc3.Bg7.e4.d6.f3&nodes=10703.11482.11470.11471.11472.11473.11518.37573.215582
My idea of playing d5 is to hinder black's queenside pawn expansion while I deliver some blows on the kingside. I think that this specially effective against the KIDbecause normally it is black who expands on the kingside and white on the queenside.
http://www.chesscorner.com/tutorial/Intermediate/openingrep/saemich/saemich.htm
http://www.chesscorner.com/tutorial/Intermediate/openingrep/saemich/saemich2.htm
The Samisch variation is commonly recognized as being the sharpest way of meeting the popular King's Indian Defence, although in its modern use by White, one is just as likely to see positional queenside play as any deadly assault on the Black king.
In this innovative opening book, Grandmaster Chris Ward takes a look at its transformation over time. He offers a unique insight into the subtleties of this system and reflects on many of his own experiences, while observing why such modern greats as Karpov, Kasparov and Kramnik have been tempted by the characteristically aggressive 5.f3.
If you have had enough of endless pages of daunting variations but want to develop your understanding of a fascinating opening, then this is the book for you. It offers useful tips on how to further your preparations as well as invaluable pointers on previously discarded lines that deserve to be revisited.
After recommending the Zaitsev I went against my word and played 4. Nf3, which has been chosen in Palliser's "Play 1. d4!" and Grivas' "Beating the Fianchetto Defenses". I unleashed a pretty blistering attack, so I thought I'd post the game. I played a little subpar from move 25 on because I only had about a minute and a half, but the win was never in jeopardy.Enjoy!
[Event "ICC 15 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2008.01.13"]
[White "TonyRo"]
[Black "da-vinci"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A57"]
[WhiteElo "2252"]
[BlackElo "2235"]
[PlyCount "69"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "900"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. Nf3 bxc4 5. Nc3 d6 6. e4 g6 7. Bxc4 Bg7 8. e5 Ng4 9. e6 f5 10. Bb5+ Kf8 11. O-O Ba6 12. Bxa6 Nxa6 13. h3 Ne5 14. Bf4 Nxf3+ 15. Qxf3 h6 16. g4 Qe8 17. Bg3 Nb4 18. gxf5 g5 19. Bxd6 Kg8 20. Bxe7 Qxe7 21. d6 Qxd6 22. Qxa8+ Kh7 23. Qxa7 Nc2 24. f6 Rg8 25. Qf7 Nd4 26. f4 Nxe6 27. fxg7 Qd4+ 28. Kh1 Nxf4 29. Rad1 Qe3 30. Qf5+ Ng6 31. Rd6 Rxg7 32. Ne4 h5 33. Nf6+ Kh6 34. Rd7 g4 35. Qxh5# {Black checkmated} 1-0
Ok, so I've been sort of following the games in Wijk Aan Zee, and one thing that has certainly caught my attention is the line that Carlsen has used against the Grunfeld:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Bg5!? - What do you guys think? Is there any information that you guys can give me about this line?
Yeah, this line has been recommended in both the books that I mentioned above. It's an interesting line for sure, but I'm not entirely sure Black has alot of problems after 5..Ne4!?. I kinda feel like Black had a perfectly acceptable position out of the opening, and just got outplayed by Carlsen's smooth skillz. 😀 Maybe that's just because I play the Grunfeld, and I refuse to accept that White get's an edge.
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Well the most popular position out of that variation seems to be:
Yeah, this line has been recommended in both the books that I mentioned above. It's an interesting line for sure, but I'm not entirely sure Black has alot of problems after 5..Ne4!?. I kinda feel like Black had a perfectly acceptable position out of the opening, and just got outplayed by Carlsen's smooth skillz. 😀 Maybe that's just because I play the Grunfeld, and I refuse to accept that White get's an edge.
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. Bg5 Ne4 6. Bh4 Nxc3 7. bxc3 dxc4 8. Qa4+ Qd7 9. Qxc4
b6 10. e3 Ba6 11. Qb3 Bxf1 12. Kxf1 O-O 13. Ke2
Which is what Carlsen's game followed - it's probably about equal though, you're right, but I think white has a very nice position that arises from a not-too-theoretical line.
I just played a game using this line. 🙂 Me vs. Fritz 9:
[Event "Blitz:15'+2""]
[Site " "]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Me"]
[Black "Fritz 9"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[PlyCount "94"]
[TimeControl "900+2"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. Bg5 Ne4
(5... dxc4 {0} 6. e4 {2} c5 {2} 7. Bxc4 {0} cxd4 8. Qxd4 Qxd4 9. Nxd4 Nxe4 10.
Nxe4 Bxd4 11. O-O-O Nc6 12. Rhe1) 6. Bh4 Nxc3 7. bxc3 dxc4 8. Qa4+ Qd7 9. Qxc4
b6 10. e3 Ba6 11. Qb3 Bxf1 12. Kxf1 O-O 13. Ke2 Nc6 {0.14/18 31} 14. Rhd1 {29}
e5 {0.18/13 14} 15. dxe5 {1} Qg4 {0.50/13 24} 16. Bg3 {7} Nxe5 {0.15/12 3} 17.
Bxe5 {28} Bxe5 {0.21/14 10} 18. h3 {5} Qf5 {0.22/12 9} 19. Rd5 {13} Rae8 {
0.32/12 3} 20. Nxe5 {16} Rxe5 {-0.24/10 2} 21. Rxe5 {12} Qxe5 {-0.38/10 2} 22.
Rd1 {10} a5 {-0.08/11 3} 23. Rd7 {10} b5 {-0.05/12 3} 24. Qd5 {16} Qxc3 {
-0.44/10 2} 25. Qxb5 {5} c5 {-0.07/11 2} 26. Rd3 {6} Qb4 {-0.14/11 5} 27. Qxb4
{10} axb4 {-0.37/11 1} 28. Rd5 {3} Rc8 {-0.43/10 2} 29. Kd3 {3} c4+ {-0.16/11 2
} 30. Kc2 {5} Ra8 {-0.18/13 2} 31. Kb1 {7} f5 {-0.13/9 2} 32. Rc5 {4} c3 {
-0.09/11 4} 33. Rc4 {4} Ra4 {-0.04/12 2} 34. a3 {19} Rxa3 {0.00/13 2} 35. Rxb4
{9} h6 {0.00/12 2} 36. Rb6 {14} Kg7 {0.00/12 5} 37. Kc2 {0} Ra2+ {-0.42/11 2}
38. Kxc3 {6} Rxf2 {-0.33/13 2} 39. Rb2 {8} Rxb2 {-0.17/14 2} 40. Kxb2 {2} Kf6 {
-0.22/14 1} 41. Kc3 {1} Ke5 {-0.07/13 2} 42. Kd3 {1} Kd5 {-0.09/13 2} 43. g3 {
21} Ke5 {0.00/14 2} 44. g4 {13} Kf6 {0.00/13 2} 45. Kd4 {5} Ke6 {0.00/17 4} 46.
gxf5+ {21} gxf5 {0.00/22 1} 47. h4 {15} Kd6 {0.00/18 1} 1/2-1/2
Originally posted by exigentskyI have to correct my earlier answer - I got to play the 7.g4!? gambit tonight:
I usually start 1. c4, but transpose into d4 lines after Nf6 by playing 2. d4. Nf6 often gives each side strong play in a particular area of the board. For example, the KID gives Black more strength on the kingside but White more on the queenside. Thus, I enjoy playing against Nf6 (usually main lines with a sideline on later moves) and would probably like to use his Semi-Slav recommendation with g4. Have you tried it and if so, how do you like it?
[Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2008.01.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Taketime"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "1296"]
[BlackElo "1485"]
[PlyCount "59"]
[EventDate "2008.01.14"]
[TimeControl "180"]
1. d4 {2} d5 {1} 2. c4 {1} e6 {2} 3. Nc3 {2} c6 {1} 4. e3 {2} Nf6 {1} 5. Qc2 {2
} Bd6 {1} 6. Nf3 {3} Nbd7 {1} 7. g4 {2} h6 {2} 8. g5 {17} hxg5 {3} 9. Nxg5 {1}
Rxh2 {9} 10. Rg1 {11} g6 {5} 11. Nxf7 {4} Qe7 {16} 12. Nxd6+ {3} Qxd6 {2} 13.
Qxg6+ {2} Kd8 {4} 14. c5 {14} Qe7 {6} 15. Bd2 {19} Nf8 {5} 16. Qg3 {4} Rh8 {15}
17. O-O-O {7} Bd7 {3} 18. e4 {2} Rg8 {5} 19. Qh2 {6} Rxg1 {3} 20. Qxg1 {1} dxe4
{13} 21. Bg5 {3} N8h7 {3} 22. Bxf6 {3} Nxf6 {3} 23. Bg2 {4} Qh7 {30} 24. Qh1 {9
} Qg7 {9} 25. Nxe4 {8} Nxe4 {12} 26. Bxe4 {2} Qg5+ {1} 27. Kb1 {4} Kc7 {6} 28.
Qh2+ {4} e5 {6} 29. dxe5 {5} Be6 {7} 30. Qh7+ {Zeit ' 4} 1-0
I thought that was a really awesome game for 3-0 blitz. 🙂
BTW: I didn't know the 7...h6!? lines, so I played Nxg5 hoping to get black mixed up in the complications - as you can see it worked out quite nicely! 🙂
One more thing - don't tear that game apart too badly because I'm proud of it. 🙂
My first try with the 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Bg5!? Grunfeld:
[Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2008.01.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Wimpy"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D91"]
[WhiteElo "1460"]
[BlackElo "1482"]
[PlyCount "44"]
[EventDate "2008.01.15"]
[TimeControl "180"]
1. d4 {2} Nf6 {3} 2. c4 {1} g6 {2} 3. Nc3 {2} d5 {1} 4. Nf3 {5} Bg7 {3} 5. Bg5
{1} Ne4 {5} 6. Bh4 {1} c6 {17} 7. cxd5 {13} cxd5 {5} 8. Qb3 {8} Nxc3 {12} 9.
bxc3 {5} Nc6 {4} 10. e3 {4} O-O {2} 11. Be2 {1} Na5 {4} 12. Qb5 {7} Bd7 {4} 13.
Qxd5 {2} Rc8 {26} 14. Bxe7 {4} Qxe7 {12} 15. Qxa5 {3} b6 {10} 16. Qb4 {10} a5 {
3} 17. Qxb6 {4} Rxc3 {4} 18. Qxa5 {11} Rfc8 {6} 19. O-O {5} Ra3 {6} 20. Qd2 {9}
Ba4 {8} 21. Rfc1 {6} Rxc1+ {17} 22. Qxc1 {2} Qb4 {
Wimpy Opgeven? (Lag: Av=0.30s, max=0.6s) 8} 1-0
I enjoyed this, because it didn't have the usual theoretical, sharp-as-hell feel typical of the Grunfeld. My favorite part of the game though, is that I found 14.Bxe7! but missed 17.Qxe7. I'm going to continue trying to play this line and see how it works out, but that game was definitely a good start. 🙂
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Hahaha, yeah, I think he might have been confused though - I doubt that the variation I played is particularly common at that level of chess. I didn't know what to do against ...c6, so I just made moves that seemed logical to me - they seem pretty solid too, so I plan on using that line against ...c6 if I ever see it again.
I hate when wussies play the Grunfeld and give it a bad name with silly moves like ..c6. GAH! 😀
Also, you can't be too mad at him - he made it clear that he was "wimpy" by his username...