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  1. 20 Jun '07 03:53
    I used it tonight on Playchess, 1.b4 as white, and 1...b5 against whatever white threw at me (1.c4, 1.d4, and 1.e4 was all I saw) and although my results were putrid I'm still going to endorse the opening.
  2. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    20 Jun '07 03:59 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    I used it tonight on Playchess, 1.b4 as white, and 1...b5 against whatever white threw at me (1.c4, 1.d4, and 1.e4 was all I saw) and although my results were putrid I'm still going to endorse the opening.
    After 1. b4 e5 what did you play? Just curious.

    Edit: Never mind, I just realized that after 1. b4 e5 2. Bb2 Bxb4 3. Bxe5 you would be even after all.
  3. 20 Jun '07 04:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    After 1. b4 e5 what did you play? Just curious.
    2.Bb2

    Surprisingly, nobody attempted 2...Nf6 3.Bxe5 Bxb4 looking for the lead in development, I think 1...e6 is black's best.

    I did play one slow game - which I lost, however, it should have been drawn as I blundered in a completely drawn (and very simple!) rook and pawn endgame because of time trouble (about 1:30).
  4. 20 Jun '07 04:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    After 1. b4 e5 what did you play? Just curious.

    Edit: Never mind, I just realized that after 1. b4 e5 2. Bb2 Bxb4 3. Bxe5 you would be even after all.
    Well, material is even, but white trades a lead in development for gaining a central pawn in return for the b pawn. The really interesting line is 1.e4 b5!? when 2.Bxb5 is open - which I didn't see white dare try, clearly they know my secret attack.

    1.c4 b5 was really crazy, white took the pawn in that game, but refused to take the second after 2.cxb5 a6.
  5. 20 Jun '07 10:09
    I always play 2 a3 after 1 b4 e5 after I got completely stuffed by black allowing the e5 pawn to be taken and playing nc6 forking bishop and b4 pawn.
    My bishop moved three times whilst black was developing. I was rapidly squashed.
    It was blitz, though, so its not conclusive. However, i believe Basman recommends a3.


    I'm interested in your b5 vs anything as black. How do the games go after
    - 1 c4 b5 2 cb
    - 1 g3 b5 2 bg2
    - 1 g4 b5 2 bg2

    Phil.
  6. 21 Jun '07 02:30
    Originally posted by MrPhil
    I always play 2 a3 after 1 b4 e5 after I got completely stuffed by black allowing the e5 pawn to be taken and playing nc6 forking bishop and b4 pawn.
    My bishop moved three times whilst black was developing. I was rapidly squashed.
    It was blitz, though, so its not conclusive. However, i believe Basman recommends a3.


    I'm interested in your b5 vs anythi ...[text shortened]... s black. How do the games go after
    - 1 c4 b5 2 cb
    - 1 g3 b5 2 bg2
    - 1 g4 b5 2 bg2

    Phil.
    Well, against 1.c4 I tried this in a 20/0:

    1. c4 b5 2. cxb5 a6 3. e3 Nf6 4. d4 d5 5. Nf3 e6 6. Nc3 Bb4 7. a3 Bxc3+ 8. bxc3 O-O 9. a4 c6 10. Ba3 Re8 11.bxc6 Nxc6

    Unfortunately, black doesn't have much compensation for the pawn there - and I'm not sure where I could have improved my line. Maybe somebody better than me can help.

    I never really thought about 1.g4/1.g3, I think I probably would have used 1...d5 or 1...e5 though. I mean, I don't really use 1...b5 as my main opening, I was just having a little fun.
  7. 21 Jun '07 12:11
    A friend of mine always used to play Santasiere's Folly:

    1. Nf3 followed by 2. b4


    and he had pretty good results with it,
  8. 21 Jun '07 15:29
    Originally posted by tharg
    A friend of mine always used to play Santasiere's Folly:

    1. Nf3 followed by 2. b4

    and he had pretty good results with it,
    I prefer to hold off on nf3, in case black tries to blunt the bishop with e5 and f6. Then a timely Qh5+ may be in order.

    Seems to me that if you want to get b4 in, then as white you have no problems. You can play it on the first move. However, with black b5 is not so clear. I still haven't found a good reply to 1 c4 or 1 g3 / g4.

    Does anybody have any insights?

    Phil.
  9. 22 Jun '07 09:04
    Done a bit of digging and Basman's 'play the st george' recommends
    playing e6 a6 and b5 vs 1 c4.
    Playing three moves at once gives black the edge!

    He doesn't cover nc3 as a try for white, and doesn't show any games where white takes the gambit pawn.

    If white goes for a bishop on g2, then the plan is fill the centre with pawns and abandon the b5 idea, at least initially.

    I'm not convinced by the pawn gambit, does anyone have any experience with this, or can point to any games where its tried?

    Phil.
  10. 22 Jun '07 11:58
    Well, here's my attempt at getting in b5 against an early c4 from white.
    It was blitz, so its far from conclusive. A couple times in the opening I played standard developing moves cos I had no idea what else to do.
    I don't think e4 was good for white.
    Despite the result, the opening felt very fragile. I haven't got the measure of this opening yet.

    [Event "RHP Blitz rated"]
    [Site "www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2007.6.22"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "**Name removed to protect the innocent**"]
    [Black "MrPhil"]
    [Result "0-1"]

    1. c2-c4 e7-e6 2. Nb1-c3 a7-a6 3. g2-g3 b7-b5 4. c4xb5 a6xb5 5. Nc3xb5 Bc8-b7 6. Ng1-f3 Ng8-f6 7. Bf1-g2 h7-h6 8. O-O Nb8-c6 9. d2-d4 g7-g5 10. e2-e4 Nf6xe4 11. Nf3-e5 Nc6xe5 12. d4xe5 d7-d5 13. Bg2xe4 d5xe4 14. Qd1xd8 Ke8xd8 15. Rf1-d1 Kd8-c8 16. f2-f4 g5xf4 17. Bc1xf4 Bf8-c5 18. Nb5-d4 Ra8-a4 19. Bf4-e3 Ra4-c4 20. b2-b3 Rc4-c3 21. Kg1-f2 Rh8-d8 22. Ra1-c1 Rc3xc1 23. Be3xc1 Bc5xd4 24. Kf2-e1 Bd4-c3 25. Ke1-e2 Bb7-a6 0-1

    Thoughts or comments?

    Phil.
  11. 22 Jun '07 12:42
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    I used it tonight on Playchess, 1.b4 as white, and 1...b5 against whatever white threw at me (1.c4, 1.d4, and 1.e4 was all I saw) and although my results were putrid I'm still going to endorse the opening.
    1.e4 b5? 2.Bxb5 is garbage, while 1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 Bxb4 3.Bxe5 Nf6 is easy equality for black. 'Nuff said?
  12. 22 Jun '07 15:03
    Originally posted by Northern Lad
    1.e4 b5? 2.Bxb5 is garbage, while 1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 Bxb4 3.Bxe5 Nf6 is easy equality for black. 'Nuff said?
    I'm still not convinced. As I said further upstream, I'd play a3/a6 to support the b4/b5 pawn. I wouldn't play 1 e4 b5 but I'm not convinced it as rubbish as you say. Black does have the long diagonal and the white bishop is misplaced on b5. Enough for the pawn? I'm leaning towards no, but I'd need to analyse it further than 3 moves to decide if it belongs in the bin. Ah, who am I kidding? What I mean is I would need to see the analysis of a much better player than me before I'm ready to consign it to the bin.
    In a way, though, its a moot point. I'm happy with a6 supporting the b5 pawn. My issue is how to get the pawn to b5 if white tries an early c4.
    I've seen IM level games where black plays a6,b5 right into the teeth of c4 with the f1 bishop backing it up. White didn't take the pawn. Why not? Does black have enough for the pawn? I tried it in the blitz game posted earlier and didn't feel happy with my position until it all fell apart for white, which wasn't forced at all.


    Phil.
  13. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    22 Jun '07 15:10
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    I used it tonight on Playchess, 1.b4 as white, and 1...b5 against whatever white threw at me (1.c4, 1.d4, and 1.e4 was all I saw) and although my results were putrid I'm still going to endorse the opening.
    Do you play 1...b5 after 1.d4 now?
  14. 22 Jun '07 16:03
    Originally posted by Northern Lad
    1.e4 b5? 2.Bxb5 is garbage, while 1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 Bxb4 3.Bxe5 Nf6 is easy equality for black. 'Nuff said?
    It's garbage, I'm not denying that - I'll stick to the KG/QG for non-blitz games.
  15. 22 Jun '07 16:15
    Originally posted by Dutch Defense
    Do you play 1...b5 after 1.d4 now?
    Its certainly playable. I've been playing it OTB this season and have scored quite well. More importantly I enjoy playing it.
    I am aware that I don't understand the opening in all its complex glory, so as to whether its a keeper or not remains to be seen.

    Phil.