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  1. 17 Aug '08 17:15


    What do you think of this opening? After fianchettoing the Bishop you usually play c4.
  2. 17 Aug '08 17:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by moteutsch
    [pgn]1. d4 d5 2. g3[/pgn]

    What do you think of this opening? After fianchettoing the Bishop you usually play c4.
    On a novice level, Cecil Purdy, in his book "Guide to Good Chess", states that it's OK to play this opening to prepare for fianchettoing your f-bishop, as long as you don't plan on moving your e-pawn early. Sounds like his advice is consistent with your idea of playing an early c4. Purdy doesn't say why you don't want to move your e-pawn early, although I suspect it's because you'd be blocking the diagonal of your fianchettoed bishop.

    If Purdy thought it was OK to play this opening, that's good enough for me.

    Edit - One other thought about why Purdy said you should only fianchetto your f-bishop if you weren't planning an early e-pawn move. Purdy also states in his book that you should not consider fianchettoing a bishop if you can simply develop it via conventional means. Maybe that was his reasoning, although only a guess on my part.
  3. 17 Aug '08 18:01
    Define "novice".
  4. 17 Aug '08 18:09
    Originally posted by moteutsch
    Define "novice".
    I thought novice was a fairly well understood term. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

    Slightly stronger than an absolute beginner, but not as strong as an intermediate player. At least that's my definition. If you want an elo range, I'm sure that's subjective, but my guess would be somewhere around 1100 to 1400 elo. (And I expect some here will argue with my numbers. )
  5. 17 Aug '08 18:44 / 1 edit
    So you're saying that on a higher level this would not be any good?
  6. 17 Aug '08 18:48
    Originally posted by moteutsch
    So you're saying that on a higher level this would not be any good?
    Nope. I said, "on a novice level", not "on a novice level only". I have no idea whether it's any good on a higher level, unfortunately.
  7. 17 Aug '08 18:50
    Ah, OK.
  8. 17 Aug '08 19:18
    Originally posted by moteutsch
    [pgn]1. d4 d5 2. g3[/pgn]

    What do you think of this opening? After fianchettoing the Bishop you usually play c4.
    There's nothing wrong with it. It will probably just transpose into a normal Catalan type position when white plays c2-c4.
  9. 18 Aug '08 05:28
    Originally posted by Northern Lad
    There's nothing wrong with it. It will probably just transpose into a normal Catalan type position when white plays c2-c4.
    I was starting to wonder who was going to inform Kramnik that his preferred opening is for novices.
  10. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    18 Aug '08 05:36
    Originally posted by zebano
    I was starting to wonder who was going to inform Kramnik that his preferred opening is for novices.
    i just did, and showed him a trick to avoid in the bird. 1.f4 and if 1..e6 avoid 2.g4?! an agressive attack but can be countered too well in modern chess.

    so watch him avoid both lines come championships, im guessing hes going to try 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5!!, but didnt tell it to him myself, wanted to make him work for it


    anyway, why not just play the catalan in normal move order, isnt that slightly better for white?
  11. 18 Aug '08 21:15
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    On a novice level, Cecil Purdy, in his book "Guide to Good Chess", states that it's OK to play this opening to prepare for fianchettoing your f-bishop, as long as you don't plan on moving your e-pawn early. Sounds like his advice is consistent with your idea of playing an early c4. Purdy doesn't say why you don't want to move your e-pawn early, although I s ...[text shortened]... ia conventional means. Maybe that was his reasoning, although only a guess on my part.
    Glad to see somebody quoting Purdy! He is one of my favorite chess writers, and I think that anyone rated below 1800 would benefit from reading his Guide to Good Chess.
  12. 19 Aug '08 12:37
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    On a novice level, Cecil Purdy, in his book "Guide to Good Chess", states that it's OK to play this opening to prepare for fianchettoing your f-bishop, as long as you don't plan on moving your e-pawn early. Sounds like his advice is consistent with your idea of playing an early c4. Purdy doesn't say why you don't want to move your e-pawn early, although I s ...[text shortened]... ia conventional means. Maybe that was his reasoning, although only a guess on my part.
    A reasonable guess but I would offer up 2 thoughts.
    1. if you play e4, you have restricted that bishop's scope that you spent two moves putting on the long diagonal.
    2. By moving e3 or e4 and g3 you have created a weakness on on f3 which probably isn't attackable in the short term, but may be if black frees his pieces.
  13. 19 Aug '08 13:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zebano
    A reasonable guess but I would offer up 2 thoughts.
    1. if you play e4, you have restricted that bishop's scope that you spent two moves putting on the long diagonal.
    2. By moving e3 or e4 and g3 you have created a weakness on on f3 which probably isn't attackable in the short term, but may be if black frees his pieces.
    Re your #1 comment, that's exactly what I meant when I said that you'd be blocking the diagonal of your fianchettoed bishop. (I assumed that e4 would likely be played, although I didn't state it explicitly.)

    Good point on your #2 comment - I hadn't considered that possibility.

    Yep, it would have been nice if Purdy had given his reason for this rule of thumb.
  14. 19 Aug '08 16:15
    Originally posted by zebano
    I was starting to wonder who was going to inform Kramnik that his preferred opening is for novices.
    I've never seen Kramnik use this inflexible opening. The structure of the Catalan is similar but it is with an immediate c4.
  15. 20 Aug '08 12:30
    1. d4 d5 2. g3
    By not playing 2. c4 and forcing e6, you allow an early Bf5. I think 2. ... Bf5 or 2. ... Nf6 and 3. ... Bf5 followed by e6 and c6 should do the trick. Of course I play an early Bf5 vs a lot of the flank openings.