1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4

Does anyone here play this opening as white? Personally I consider this move very inferior, especially against 3. ...Nf6! I'd say Bc4?! is a dubious (not technically bad) move. It doesn't make any threats or keep pressure on blacks position. After Nf6 Ng5? is a common mistake that even Grandmasters make!

Read what Grandmaster Tarrasch has to say about this move (this comment is infamous):
“ A typical example of a bungling move. White has developed two pieces and attacks with them, instead of further developing his game. Naturally, the attack soon passes over to black, a proof that the move must be bad. For, if white consistently makes the best move, it is impossible for him to be driven after a few moves into the unworthy role of defender.”
(well say Siegey 🙂)
For example after 4. Ng5? d5 5. ed5 Na5 6. Bb5 c6 7. dc6 bc6 8. Be2 h6 9. Nf3 e4 10. Ne5 black has no problem getting at least a draw, whereas white must be careful (in fact I plan to eventually further analyze this position and find the strongest lines).

But 4. Ng5? Bc5? is awful, only in some inferior lines does black have winning chances, however there is a line that I haven't found played in chess databases that only gives chances to win for white, and black must be very very careful to avoid a loss (if it is indeed possible).

Ng5 isn't a mistake. It's an interesting move that leads to a very sharp position that few black players know how to defend.

I would say that about 5. ...Nd4 (I think it's called the fritz variation)

You can't be serious... some people MIGHT question an ENTIRE opening system (in this case the italian) but judging from your previous posts on how kasparov lost in 5 moves and all, I'd say you're just trying to start another load of crap.

Originally posted by bobbob1056th
I would say that about 5. ...Nd4 (I think it's called the fritz variation)

Originally posted by ark13
5... Nd4 following what?

Originally posted by fetofs
The main line is 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4(8.cxd4 Qxg5, a very confusing line, rather good for black)8...Qh4 Both are very tactical 9.Ng3 Bg4 10.f3 e4 11.cxd4 (Not 11.fxg4? Bd6) 11...Bd6 12.Bxb5+ Kd8 13.O-O
exf3 14.Rxf3 Rb8(Not 14...Bxf3? 15.Qxf3-+)15.a4 a6 16.Bf1 Re8 17.Nc3 c6 18.d3 f5 19.Nce2 Re6 20.Rf2 g5 21.Qd2 Ne3

Whew! That was a loooong line 😉

the two ponies defence: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. ed5 Nd4. And as for the italian game... I was just stating it's obviously not the strongest move. It's perfectly playable though, and white still keeps some advantage.

Originally posted by bobbob1056th
the two ponies defence: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. ed5 Nd4. And as for the italian game... I was just stating it's obviously not the strongest move. It's perfectly playable though, and white still keeps some advantage.

Well, I play the Italian Game, so I guess I'm a dubious kinda guy 😉

I suppose if black knows the Spanish line and is adept at it then the Italian could be stronger.

4. d4 going into a max lange attack is strong for white.