Originally posted by TigerhouseI've always leaned in the direction of abolishing women titles. I think women are basically just as smart as men, and should compete as such.😏
Just read this article, from the American newspaper the Wall Street Journal, that favors abolishing different titles for women, like the Woman Grandmaster (WGM) title. The argument given is that such titles are inherently sexist, and that women now have greater access to chess and training resources, so the division between men and women players is expect ...[text shortened]... sj.com/article/SB10001424052748703298004574457393421190888.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel
Originally posted by MahoutNot so. In fact, women's titles are roughly similar to affirmative action as it is designed to work in the US to assist historically and systemically disadvantaged groups--women and racial minorities. Disadvantaged because of laws and social practices that discriminate. Most of the laws are gone; yet, social practices continue to produce discrimination, so affirmative action and women's titles helps surmount the barriers.
Drawing parallels between an issue to with race and an issue to do with gender is the flimsy
logic in this instance.
Originally posted by WulebgrIf women's chess titles were like affirmative action, they'd get the full-GM title once they completed the WGM requirements.
Not so. In fact, women's titles are roughly similar to affirmative action as it is designed to work in the US to assist historically and systemically disadvantaged groups--women and racial minorities. Disadvantaged because of laws and social practices that discriminate. Most of the laws are gone; yet, social practices continue to produce discrimination, so affirmative action and women's titles helps surmount the barriers.
Originally posted by WulebgrI would say they reinforce these barriers.
Not so. In fact, women's titles are roughly similar to affirmative action as it is designed to work in the US to assist historically and systemically disadvantaged groups--women and racial minorities. Disadvantaged because of laws and social practices that discriminate. Most of the laws are gone; yet, social practices continue to produce discrimination, so affirmative action and women's titles helps surmount the barriers.
Think about affirmative action for a second....It actually demeans accomplishments women and minorities achieve: after all, there success could be explained by affirmative action, not by their own abilities or skills.
The reason why people want to get rid of the Women's titles should be BECAUSE they do in fact see them as equals.
The post that was quoted here has been removed"That player may not be explicitly excluded, but that player will need
a skin thick enough to withstand the casual racist remarks and jokes
that likely have been previously accepted as normal in the club."
The word "likely" is an evil assumption you are making. When we have reached this point in a post, we are probably best served by returning to posts with chess moves in them, and retiring this subject to another forum.
Paul Leggett
2 edits
Originally posted by Paul Leggettplease dont, next to Alexandra Kosteniuk, ....sigh...., shes my favourite Lady! i provide a link to the formers website, in which she publishes an article, in refutation, of the wall street journal.
"That player may not be explicitly excluded, but that player will need
a skin thick enough to withstand the casual racist remarks and jokes
that likely have been previously accepted as normal in the club."
The word "likely" is an evil assumption you are making. When we have reached this point in a post, we are probably best served by returning to posts with chess moves in them, and retiring this subject to another forum.
Paul Leggett
http://www.chessblog.com/2009/10/abolish-womens-itles-ridiculous.html
isn't she divine?
Originally posted by c guy1I'm sorry, but FOX is not news, and on this point, as with most, they are wrong.
I would say they reinforce these barriers.
Think about affirmative action for a second....It actually demeans accomplishments women and minorities achieve: after all, there success could be explained by affirmative action, not by their own abilities or skills.
The reason why people want to get rid of the Women's titles should be BECAUSE they do in fact see them as equals.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo the conservative beauty queen has made a feminist statement. Seems that we ought to take notice regarding how far out there the WSJ is with its recommendation.
please dont, next to Alexandra Kosteniuk, ....sigh...., shes my favourite Lady! i provide a link to the formers website, in which she publishes an article, in refutation, of the wall street journal.
http://www.chessblog.com/2009/10/abolish-womens-itles-ridiculous.html
isn't she divine?
Originally posted by Wulebgrmmm, i dont know if it can be described as a feminist statement, more of a practical one me thinks, she cites for example the measly money that ladies earn in tournaments, would be all but gone if ladies tournaments were abolished, providing even less incentive for young women to take up the sport. This and the other very valid reasons also, in my amazing opinion, validate her case, but that besides, isn't she adorable?
So the conservative beauty queen has made a feminist statement. Seems that we ought to take notice regarding how far out there the WSJ is with its recommendation.