accused of cheating

i was recently falsely accused of cheating using a engine because l had two wins over a higher rated player than myself. I average around 1300. Is there someone who could study the games to prove innocence. I take the accusation very seriously and a huge insult. Thank you matthew Game 5638673 Game 5638680

Fritz 11 @ 30 seconds per move
Pentium 4 2.93GHz 1GB RAM
Hash Table 192MB
Database used www.chesslive.de


[Event "stargaters"]
[Site "http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com"]
[Date "2008.11.10"]
[EndDate "2008.12.13"]
[Round "1"]
[White "sundown316"]
[Black "matt013"]
[WhiteRating "1653"]
[BlackRating "1337"]
[WhiteELO "1653"]
[BlackELO "1337"]
[Result "0-1"]
[GameId "5638673"]

1. d4 d5 2. e4 e6 3. Be3 Nc6 4. Bb5 Bd7 5. exd5 {
Takes game out of book: 1st choice} exd5 {1st choice} 6. Nf3 {2nd choice} Nf6 {
2nd choice} 7. O-O {1st choice} h6 {3rd choice} 8. c3 {Not in top 3} Bd6 {
1st choice} 9. Nbd2 {1st choice} O-O {1st choice} 10. Re1 {3rd choice} Bg4 {
Not in top 3} 11. Qb3 {Not in top 3} Rb8 {Not in top 3} 12. Bxc6 {Not in top 3}
bxc6 {1st choice} 13. Qc2 {1st choice} Re8 {2nd choice} 14. b3 {Not in top 3}
Ne4 {Not in top 3} 15. h3 {Not in top 3} Bf5 {1st choice} 16. Nxe4 {2nd choice}
Bxe4 {1st choice} 17. Qe2 {2nd choice} Re6 {3rd choice} 18. Rad1 {Not in top 3}
Qe7 {2nd choice} 19. Nd2 {2nd choice} Rg6 {Not in top 3} 20. f3 {3rd choice}
Bf5 {2nd choice} 21. c4 {Not in top 3} Bxh3 {1st choice} 22. g4 {3rd choice}
Qh4 {1st choice} 23. Bf2 {Not in top 3} Bg3 {2nd choice} 24. Nf1 {2nd choice}
Bxf1 {1st choice} 25. Bxg3 {1st choice} Bxe2 {1st choice} 26. Bxh4 {1st choice}
Bxd1 {1st choice} 27. Rxd1 {1st choice} Re8 {Not in top 3} 28. cxd5 {3rd choice
} cxd5 {2nd choice} 29. Kf2 {1st choice} a5 {Not in top 3} 30. Rc1 {1st choice}
Rge6 {1st choice} 31. Rxc7 {Not in top 3} Re2+ {1st choice} 32. Kg3 {3rd choice
} g5 {1st choice} 0-1

Game 5638673
Result:
White: sundown316
Top 1 Match: 9/28 (32,1% )
Top 2 Match: 14/28 (50,0% )
Top 3 Match: 19/28 (67,9% )

Black: matt013
Top 1 Match: 14/28 (50,0% )
Top 2 Match: 20/28 (71,4% )
Top 3 Match: 22/28 (78,6% )



[Event "stargaters"]
[Site "http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com"]
[Date "2008.11.10"]
[EndDate "2008.12.13"]
[Round "1"]
[White "matt013"]
[Black "sundown316"]
[WhiteRating "1337"]
[BlackRating "1653"]
[WhiteELO "1337"]
[BlackELO "1653"]
[Result "1-0"]
[GameId "5638680"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. Bg5 d6 6. h3 Be6 7. Nbd2 O-O 8. Bd5
{Takes game out of book; Not in top 3} Bxd5 {1st choice} 9. exd5 {1st choice}
Nd4 {Not in top 3} 10. Nxd4 {2nd choice} Bxd4 {2nd choice} 11. c3 {2nd choice}
Bb6 {1st choice} 12. Nf3 {Not in top 3} h6 {2nd choice} 13. Bh4 {2nd choice}
Qe7 {Not in top 3} 14. O-O {3rd choice} g5 {1st choice} 15. Nxg5 {1st choice}
hxg5 {1st choice} 16. Bxg5 {1st choice} Kg7 {2nd choice} 17. Qd2 {Not in top 3}
Rh8 {1st choice} 18. Rae1 {Not in top 3} Rh5 {Not in top 3} 19. d4 {1st choice}
Rg8 {Not in top 3} 20. dxe5 {Not in top 3} dxe5 {1st choice} 21. Kh2 {
Not in top 3} Kf8 {2nd choice} 22. f4 {1st choice} e4 {2nd choice} 23. c4 {
Not in top 3} Qd6 {Not in top 3} 24. Kh1 {Not in top 3} Nd7 {Not in top 3} 25.
Rxe4 {1st choice} Rhxg5 {Not in top 3} 26. fxg5 {1st choice} Qg3 {Not in top 3}
27. Rg4 {Not in top 3} Qe5 {Not in top 3} 28. g6 {1st choice} f6 {2nd choice}
29. Re1 {2nd choice} Qh5 {1st choice} 30. Qb4+ {Not in top 3} Bc5 {1st choice}
31. Qxb7 {2nd choice} 1-0

Game 5638680
Result:
White: matt013
Top 1 Match: 8/24 (33,3% )
Top 2 Match: 13/24 (54,2% )
Top 3 Match: 14/24 (58,3% )

Black: sundown316
Top 1 Match: 8/23 (34,8% )
Top 2 Match: 14/23 (60,9% )
Top 3 Match: 14/23 (60,9% )

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
Fritz 11 @ 30 seconds per move
Pentium 4 2.93GHz 1GB RAM
Hash Table 192MB
Database used www.chesslive.de


[Event "stargaters"]
[Site "http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com"]
[Date "2008.11.10"]
[EndDate "2008.12.13"]
[Round "1"]
[White "sundown316"]
[Black "matt013"]
[WhiteRating "1653"]
[BlackRating "1337"]
[WhiteELO "1653"]
[BlackELO "13 ...[text shortened]... 14/23 (60,9% )
Top 3 Match: 14/23 (60,9% )

what does this mean, was the dude cheating or not?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what does this mean, was the dude cheating or not?

In the first game, Black had the better of the play throughout most of it.
There were plenty of forced moves in this game, so both players figures should reflect that.
In the second game, the score swung wildly between both players. Both of them missed "killer" moves.

I see no evidence of foul play in either game by either player.

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
In the first game, Black had the better of the play throughout most of it.
There were plenty of forced moves in this game, so both players figures should reflect that.
In the second game, the score swung wildly between both players. Both of them missed "killer" moves.

I see no evidence of foul play in either game by either player.

wow, quite amazing. is this the method that most will apply, to try to ascertain engine use based on a statement of degree to the corresponding engine choice of first , second and third moves, and is an average taken from this over a prolonged period of time?

if so what percentage would indicate that one was cheating?

i would like to thank all for their help i truly believe in honesty over the board. I read lots about catching cheats and i support the removal of them, prehaps some time can be given to protecting the accused. I will contact my accusor of these results. Maybe people who wrongfully accuse people of lying and cheating should face the same fate as those who do cheat. There is no bigger insult.

Originally posted by matt013
i would like to thank all for their help i truly believe in honesty over the board. I read lots about catching cheats and i support the removal of them, prehaps some time can be given to protecting the accused. I will contact my accusor of these results. Maybe people who wrongfully accuse people of lying and cheating should face the same fate as those who do cheat. There is no bigger insult.

nicely done....going to complain *fair play ticket*?

i wouldn't liked to be accused of cheating and there's nothing to stop him from doing next time a person a couple of 100 points below him beats him.

Squelch, you have way too much time on your hands =)

Originally posted by trev33

i wouldn't liked to be accused of cheating and there's nothing to stop him from doing next time a person a couple of 100 points below him beats him.

Is there anybody on RHP who HASN'T been beaten by an opponent a couple hundred points lower? Or who HASN'T soundly beaten an opponent a couple hundred points higher? I had a guy a couple weeks ago tell me that I played much higher than my rating indicated, which I chose to take as a compliment, but it was a gentle way of saying that maybe I was using an engine. The truth is we all have really good days and really bad days. My philosophy is, if you take a game from a much lower player and he whomps you, you can choose not to play that person again or you can figure out what about that person's style took you by surprise and go for a rematch.

Congratulations on the vindication. What's really great about RHP is the quality of players who have the skill and the generosity to prove your innocence. Cheers to that!

Originally posted by matt013
i would like to thank all for their help i truly believe in honesty over the board. I read lots about catching cheats and i support the removal of them, prehaps some time can be given to protecting the accused. I will contact my accusor of these results. Maybe people who wrongfully accuse people of lying and cheating should face the same fate as those who do cheat. There is no bigger insult.

I'd take it as a compliment...

well said and again thanks good luck in all your games and most of all have fun

it is not a flattering label liar and cheat. A good person would accept defeat and as suggest by others learn from their mistakes

Some players I have played against on a number of occasions were lower rated than me, but often have beaten me because of style of play. Playing in unfamiliar territory all the time and end up leading me down a difficult position. 😕

EDIT: To best illustrate this (wouldn't get caught out this way these days) is the scholar's mate. A 900 rated player could potentially beat a 1000 player over and over again by using this method if the higher rated player wasn't aware of how to combat it. I figure there are more complex traps for higher rated players.

I wouldn't recommend the scholar's mate for anyone though, as it can lead to the person playing it to be in a weaker position. It is basically "Hope Chess".

Originally posted by matt013
i was recently falsely accused of cheating using a engine because l had two wins over a higher rated player than myself. I average around 1300. Is there someone who could study the games to prove innocence. I take the accusation very seriously and a huge insult. Thank you matthew Game 5638673 Game 5638680

it just comes with the territory. you can never actually see your opponent, so very quickly the paranoia gets out of hand.

as a rule of thumb, cheating is not a problem under 2000. and most 2000+ players recognize cheaters from their unprincipled but crushing moves anyway, and probably wouldn't even bother to mention the issue to the cheater, but report them instead and drag the games. - dragging games doesn't mean someone's suspected though, serious players simply prefer to use most of the time. even in trivial opening moves, for research, opening study and gameload management for example.

but when you're 1300 and someone accuses you, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

If I always beat players rated 200 points below me by just choosing to play only such players would my rating not continue to rise indefinately?

We all lose to inferior players and beat better players from time to time.

I have been accused of exactly the same. There was a time I lost (due to over confidence) 2 games carelessly to a player rated about 1700 whilst on my way up (I was rated about 1600 at that time and fairly new on the site). As soon as I got to 1900 he accused me of cheating. It happens. He went on my ignore list and I haven't been bothered by him since.