Originally posted by c guy11.e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. c4 Nb6 5. f4 is a common move order as well. At high levels it scores comparably to the other options, so it can't be that bad.
ehhh... four pawns goes:
1.e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. c4 Nb6 4. d4 d6! 5. f4
At this point, white is often considered inferior.
5.....dxe5 6.fxe5 (dxe5? Qxd1+). Now from here it is black's chance to prove the opening. Ideas range from 6...c5 (I dont prefer this system) attacking whites center rapidly or 6....g6 7...Bg7 8.....c5 to continue development, then attack. Either way, the four pawns is tactical, but often considered inferrior to other lines.
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using the http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com/gamesexplorer/ on the master games setting, after move 5.f4 whites best odds are at 42%, hardly the acceptable 50-55%,. and thats only if black plays the inferior Bf5. If black plays dxe5 (as he should), the odds go 37% 36%, 27% (and this is as close to equality as black should need). After dxe5. 6.fxe5 black can play c5, bringing the odds to 37, 27, 36! or safer 6...g6 34,33,33...leadig (as lines show) to a virtual draw. following c5, white can only play d5 (otherwise Qxe1+ and things get a little too interesting for whites taste)
ADDED: after words, black plays e6 (puts the percents at 30,30,40!!!), to continue the pounding of the extremly streatched white center (notice how white has NO minor pieces developed). Follow the lines, you'll find that no moves played by white give better percents, only black can make it bad for himself.
In summary, after 5.f4 its black to lose.
Originally posted by endgameranother interesting line is after 2.Nc3 d5 3.e5 Ne4 4.d4 Nxc3 5.Nxc3---from here black has a french defence line in which he can free his queen side bishop from the blockading pawn chain he has.
I can see what your saying, but after those stats I dont think I fear the 4 pawns attack anymore...thanks...and yeah...its a little dangerous...but interestingly, it pulls everyone I have played OTB out of book while keeping me in it, so I like it.
Originally posted by AlphaAlekhineThe Four Pawn Attack (3. c4), is in my opinion the best way to handle The Alekhine for White. 3. c4 Nb6, 4. d4 Nc6 5. f4, and White has a strong pawn-center, that puts Black to the task of proving the Alekhine Defense is a sound opening (again the whole point of Nf6).
Yes, it is a ploy to make White over-extend his center. Black actually tries to prove that White's preponderance of central pawns is, in fact, weak. Think of an army over-extending its supply lines. It's a fun "hyper-modern opening," yet there are MANY dangerous tactical chances.
If you choose to play this against 1. e4, be prepared for the natur ...[text shortened]... ll know how to face it as White. It creates some very rich and enjoyable games. Have fun!
The four pawns attack lost a lot of its potency because of the c5, to the point where most high rated players no longer use the four pawn attack. As far as the topic the Alenkine defense is a fun opening which I play. Although the highest person I ever beat with it is a 2076 at a USCF tournament., but I'm an A player.
Originally posted by Sam The Shamyou post could not have sounded more foolish. Read what others have said before posting such idiocy again. The point of the Alekhine is allow white to make a target of himself. To put it very simply: much like there are poisoned pawns in chess, the space and center given to white is what black tries to prove is poisoned.
Alekhine's Defense gives up space, development, and control of the center for no significant return. It results in a cramped game for black without any compensation. Some of the greats have played it, like Korchnoi and Fischer, but for the average player it sucks on toast.
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Originally posted by endgamerUhhh, my post was from Modern Chess Openings, another quote from the Oxford Chess Encyclopedia is:" Analyzed and found wanting"
you post could not have sounded more foolish. Read what others have said before posting such idiocy again. The point of the Alekhine is allow white to make a target of himself. To put it very simply: much like there are poisoned pawns in chess, the space and center given to white is what black tries to prove is poisoned.
I did read what others have said. Have you?
So...you're a high skool junior......oh boy, let's play. Give me white and play Alekhine's Defense. We'll see.
Originally posted by Sam The ShamIn my opinion you need to be a very strong, confident defender to play the black side of the Alekhine.
Uhhh, my post was from Modern Chess Openings, another quote from the Oxford Chess Encyclopedia is:" Analyzed and found wanting"
I did read what others have said. Have you?
It isn't one for novices, though clearly it is perfectly playable at higher levels. Just look at any db.
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Originally posted by SquelchbelchI think you are right. It isn't bad, it is just an opening that takes a GM to prove it's OK. Unlike Mr. Endgamer.
In my opinion you need to be a very strong, confident defender to play the black side of the Alekhine.
It isn't one for novices, though clearly it is perfectly playable at higher levels. Just look at any db.
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Originally posted by ChessJesterWhite plays typical, optimal opening moves, while black plays a very different game!?
what is the hippo again?
such as:
1.e4...b6
2.d4...g6
3.Nf3...Bg7
4.Nc3...Bb7
5.Bc4...d6
6.Bf4...e6
7.0-0...Ne7
8.Qe2...Nd7
9.R(a)d1...0-0
white to move
I have played this formation twice on RHP, once with the white pieces. I won both games. I'll try to dig them up. Be a hell of a lot easier if someone updates gamesexplorer!
The idea is that white needs to form a plan which will be very difficult as there are few weaknesses in black's hypermodern opening.
Black can simply push all pawns to the 3rd rank & watch for tactical possibilities or a strategic exchange & so forth...
One more thing. It is superb in 5 mins blitz. Your moves ar pre-defined & you know roughly what the structure will be. It's easy for the opponent to overlook one of the fianchettoed B's or make a poor effort at attacking you.
I have my best record in blitz with this. It is catching though - I've played several times against it & it really is a tough one.
Originally posted by SquelchbelchThose wanting to learn more about the Hippo might want to check out IM Andrew Martin's entertaining book, "The Hippopotamus Rises."
White plays typical, optimal opening moves, while black plays a very different game!?
such as:
1.e4...b6
2.d4...g6
3.Nf3...Bg7
4.Nc3...Bb7
5.Bc4...d6
6.Bf4...e6
7.0-0...Ne7
8.Qe2...Nd7
9.R(a)d1...0-0
white to move
[fen]r2q1rk1/pbpnnpbp/1p1pp1p1/8/2BPPB2/2N2N2/PPP1QPPP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 10[/fen]
I have played this formation twice on RHP, ...[text shortened]... . It is catching though - I've played several times against it & it really is a tough one.