An early knight sacrifice.- Reti opening

You lot still discussing this?

What you are looking at after.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. Ng5 e5 3. Nxf7 Kxf7 4. e4


Is a hybrid version of the Cochrane Gambit v the Petroff a whole tempo down.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7 Kxf7


White now plays 5.d4 and the fun begins.

back here...


It is Black's move.

SG's decision to swing it into a Pirc with 4..g6 was OK but demanded strict exact play.

4...d5! and if 5.exd5 Bd6.


And the Bishop coming to c4 that worried SG so much is blocked by White's own pawn.

If White goes the Nf3-e5-f7 route so Black does not get in 2...e5.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. Ne5 d6 3. Nxf7 Kxf7 4. e4 e5


Is similiar to a Philidor set up except Black is a piece ahead.

And if White does not play now play 5.Bc4+ Black is going to play 5...Be6 so:

5.Bc4+ d5! 6.exd5 Bd6.


It's going to take some work to justify that piece sac.

Not 100% sure one should be looking at this type of game with a box.
It will try to hang onto material clogging itself up steering the human
towards a position that will be difficult to play.

A good human will be looking to throw the bit back at the right moment
to either expose the White King or pick up his two pawns with a sure plus.

A box won't go this way, it will see it, judge it good and playable
but that consideration will be way down the scale.

And don't worry about 1.Nf3 it's often played at this level by players
wishing to avoid theory or go for a Black defence in reverse.
Go for a KID safe in the knowledge you will not be getting one of the
sharp f4 lines or the Samisch (5.f3).

or

1...Nc6 and play the Chigorin if 2.d4.

or

1...Nf6 and knock the ball back to him and if 2.g3 then 2....b5
(yes not a typo. 2...b5)

Not worry about it.
If it was any good Fischer would have played 1.Nf3 in every game.

Don't forget Reti himsefl gave up the Reti.

In 1928 four years after it appeared Reti as White played 1.e4 12 times,
1 d4 12 times, a couple of 1.c4's and no 1.Nf3's.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
You lot still discussing this?

What you are looking at after.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. Ng5 e5 3. Nxf7 Kxf7 4. e4

[fen]rnbq1b1r/pppp1kpp/5n2/4p3/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQ e3 0 4[/fen]
Is a hybrid version of the Cochrane Gambit v the Petroff a whole tempo down.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7 Kxf7

[fen]rnbq1b1r/ppp2kpp/3p1n2/8/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP ...[text shortened]... Reti as White played 1.e4 12 times,
1 d4 12 times, a couple of 1.c4's and no 1.Nf3's.

All that means is that he had determined 1.e4 and 1.d4 were the two best moves to begin the game, which all the old masters had already known.

The Instructor

Originally posted by greenpawn34
You lot still discussing this?

What you are looking at after.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. Ng5 e5 3. Nxf7 Kxf7 4. e4

[fen]rnbq1b1r/pppp1kpp/5n2/4p3/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQ e3 0 4[/fen]
Is a hybrid version of the Cochrane Gambit v the Petroff a whole tempo down.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7 Kxf7

[fen]rnbq1b1r/ppp2kpp/3p1n2/8/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP ...[text shortened]... Reti as White played 1.e4 12 times,
1 d4 12 times, a couple of 1.c4's and no 1.Nf3's.

I can't speak for the rest of the lot, but when you're playing badly, as I am, lots of positions are more interesting than they should be. 😲

Originally posted by Kepler
I don't fear it but I'd rather make my opponent think rather than just playing his prepared line.

That's fear. Fear of your opponent's preparation.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
That's fear. Fear of your opponent's preparation.

I'm looking at the saitek now but i don't want to loose again ....

i think the line we played should be ok for black like gp says, blocking bc4 does mess up my plans - i like the line 1nf3,nf6 2ne5, d6 3nxf7 as the king has less space but the computer might say no...

computer says no to the e6 line!!



-6.4 it says, one dead duck! but 4...c6 is a subtle move, 4 nxe4 is loosing i think and quite a likely reply.

edit sg i don't know how you lost as its beating me in every line right now 🙁 but there are a few traps....

Originally posted by e4chris
computer says no to the e6 line!!

[pgn]1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ne5 d6 3.Nxf7 Kxf7 4.e4 c6 5.e5 dxe5 6.Bc4+ e6 7.g4 Qd4 8.Be2 Qe4[/pgn]

-6.4 it says, one dead duck! but 4...c6 is a subtle move, 4 nxe4 is loosing i think and quite a likely reply.

edit sg i don't know how you lost as its beating me in every line right now 🙁 but there are a few traps....

I lost because I suck compared to a comp! 😞

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I lost because I suck compared to a comp! 😞

i can assure you it wasn't used on you 🙂 - but yes probably its elo is c2000, wasn't the cheap one! the line it lost to was the second i posted c6, d6, leaving the king quite exposed after nxf7. In all others its fairing quite well so far. But like the muzio you can sacrifice even more as the kings exposed. you suffered to the 2 bishops on my queens side - the computer looses to a line like that but in a different opening.

i beat a pc program (cheating a bit off course but not much) with this line - i think its a forced win / opening glitch.



can't remember the rest but it looks winning. and edit d6 not e6 in the last post duh.

Originally posted by e4chris
i can assure you it wasn't used on you 🙂 - but yes probably its elo is c2000, wasn't the cheap one! the line it lost to was the second i posted c6, d6, leaving the king quite exposed after nxf7. In all others its fairing quite well so far. But like the muzio you can sacrifice even more as the kings exposed. you suffered to the 2 bishops on my queens side - ...[text shortened]... n]

can't remember the rest but it looks winning. and edit d6 not e6 in the last post duh.

Only 2000? You can get free engines, like Crafty, that are far stronger.

Edit: I wasn't accusing you of anything - just pointing out that you will have more trouble when a comp plays the black side of this line because computers see all the tactics and I don't.

Going to have to do another thread.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Going to have to do another thread.

.... 🙂

Originally posted by e4chris
Here is the game, where is someone with houdini 🙂 ? 🙂

[pgn][Event "Challenge"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2013.05.11"]
[EndDate "2013.05.20"]
[Round "?"]
[White "e4chris"]
[Black "SwissGambit"]
[WhiteRating "1559"]
[BlackRating "1720"]
[WhiteElo "1559"]
[BlackElo "1720"]
[Result "1-0"]
[GameId "10012433"]

1. Ng1f3 Ng8f6 2. ...[text shortened]...
move 15 was quite decisive but not sure if black could of stopped it.

Didnt look deep or anything but what about 4...b5? It stops the immediate Bc4 and if Bxb5 then ...c6 and ...d5 permanently shut down this diagonal for white... Or at least thats how it looks without some analysis so im sure somebody will make mince meat of it.

Edit: nvm i just noticed that d5 immediately blocks Bc4 much more elegantly.

Originally posted by tomtom232
Didnt look deep or anything but what about 4...b5? It stops the immediate Bc4 and if Bxb5 then ...c6 and ...d5 permanently shut down this diagonal for white... Or at least thats how it looks without some analysis so im sure somebody will make mince meat of it.

Edit: nvm i just noticed that d5 immediately blocks Bc4 much more elegantly.

b5 is ok too, has some tempo to it ...

Originally posted by SwissGambit
That's fear. Fear of your opponent's preparation.

Or playing to your opponent's weakness.

It reminds me of the story of the chess master who was playing two people at once against two opponents, he played white the first board and black on the second. When he saw that the two guys were just copying his moves, he intentionally sacrificed his queen, which the other board avoided. Now that the boards were different he was able to take the easy win.

If you are playing good chess players, then of course getting out of preparation early isn't a great advantage. If you are playing someone who is better prepared in opening lines, but weaker in middle and end game, then why not avoid the preparation?

Originally posted by Eladar
Or playing to your opponent's weakness.

It reminds me of the story of the chess master who was playing two people at once against two opponents, he played white the first board and black on the second. When he saw that the two guys were just copying his moves, he intentionally sacrificed his queen, which the other board avoided. Now that the boards were pared in opening lines, but weaker in middle and end game, then why not avoid the preparation?

No, your opponent's weakness is that he makes unsound sacrifices on move 3. You'd have to be crazy not to try and exploit that weakness. 😛

This isn't about opening preparation. Opening preparation is for getting slight edges with white and equality with black.