Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. 24 Jul '10 17:51
    I played a 3/0 on FICS recently, and the following position came up:



    Black to move.

    This was extremely difficult to find the right move for me. Even after analysis with a computer, it's hard for me to see.
  2. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    24 Jul '10 18:00 / 2 edits
    My first instinct was Ke3, but I'm sure the point is to find a tactic, so I'll keep looking!

    Edit: It's black to move, so I'm subtracting 100 points from my rating and starting over.:

    Second edit: I'm thinking ...Qd1, pinning the rook to the white queen, and if the queen moves of the diagonal, there is the threat of ...Rxg2, as the white king would be overloaded protecting both rooks.
  3. 24 Jul '10 18:11
    My gut instinct would have been correct in this case, but it's always tricky when you have little time. It's actually a fairly strong position as far I can make out with more than one viable move.
  4. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    24 Jul '10 19:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by amolv06
    I played a 3/0 on FICS recently, and the following position came up:

    [fen]6k1/6pp/3r2r1/pp3p1Q/3PpP2/PqP5/1P2RKRP/8 b - - 0 33[/fen]

    Black to move.

    This was extremely difficult to find the right move for me. Even after analysis with a computer, it's hard for me to see.
    In quickplay Rh6 forcing my opponent to mate me.
    ...
    Is Qf7 any good?
  5. 24 Jul '10 21:07
    I am currently obsessed with pawns. Push the b pawn and pick up the weakened pawns
  6. 24 Jul '10 21:20
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    Edit: It's black to move, so I'm subtracting 100 points from my rating and starting over.:
    Lol :p

    Nothing that has been posted so far is Rybka's first choice. Qd1 seems to be winning, but there is apparently a more direct route in Rybka's opinion. I played Qf7 in game.
  7. 25 Jul '10 07:26
    How about rook g2?
  8. 25 Jul '10 07:42
    was kinda thinking rook d4 first.
  9. 25 Jul '10 08:32
    Mr, Legget is correct about d1, but playing rook g2 first is clearly better in my opinion.
  10. 25 Jul '10 11:17
    so what did rybka think? Im fascinated.
  11. 25 Jul '10 15:54
    Rg2 was the correct move. It seems to lead to a rook for queen trade at some point in the future if you play very accurately, or the loss of his rook, but the continuation is not obvious at all to me.
  12. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    25 Jul '10 17:00
    Originally posted by amolv06
    Rg2 was the correct move. It seems to lead to a rook for queen trade at some point in the future if you play very accurately, or the loss of his rook, but the continuation is not obvious at all to me.
    I don't know if this will help, but these are the "abstract features" that go through my mind before I start to calculate:

    1. White's queen is a loose piece, subject to a discovered attack.

    2. White's rook and queen are on the same diagonal, so a pin can be very effective with the queen being loose.

    3. White's king is overloaded in that he is protecting both rooks at the same time, so if the king is compelled to recapture one rook, the other is immediately hanging.

    4. Black's e-pawn is a runner, and it can make a timely check by moving to e3 which could be very strong tactically.

    5. I haven't really "soaked in" the position from the perspective of the ending, but as black I would want to pick off one more pawn or at least keep one rook on the board before I would venture into the endgame with a win in mind. I could be "off" on that, though, as I am looking at it very superficially.

    I see these as the essential ingredients of the position, which potentially can be combined into a winning recipe. At this point I would begin the critical move-by-move analysis to find the right order.

    In an OTB game I would play whichever line I was most certain to win for me and prevent counterplay, so I would normally play the first line for me that "worked", which may not be the shortest. In CC we have the luxury of going over every permutation with far more time available.

    I don't know if this helps, as every person is different in how they approach things, but this is what I see when I look at the position.
  13. 25 Jul '10 17:45
    rxg2, kxr, rg6 check and white is clearly losing
  14. 25 Jul '10 18:06
    Not so clearly. Not to me, anyway.

    Paul, thanks a lot for that explanation. I like to think in abstract ideas as well, and it really helps seeing some of the ideas a higher-rated player such as yourself applies in such a position. Of course, even keeping those ideas in mind, the calculation does not seem trivial to me.