Analysis needed!

Originally posted by erikido
just because black is attacking on one side of the board does not necessarily mean it will be succesful. The knight and bishop are in prime positions to defend the king(not that it necessarily will hold. But, without investigating I wouldn't immediately dismiss it. This is just the kind of thing that a comp would be good to go to for. Many times it just ...[text shortened]... o a attack when I am wondering what the hell it is doing. Then down the line I see the light.)

After white castle black plays ...f3 and that bishop is cut off and g3 will just weaken the white squares which will be really bad with the queen away from the defense and the bishop cut off. Its like black is up a queen because he is attacking with two rooks (shortly) a queen and a bishop and white is defending with two rooks and a knight.

So many mating patterns come into play and your exchange sac ...Rxf3 comes to mind also.

and after n-e3 the " weak g2 square isn't really all that weak (and with your queen on h5 then why would you play f3)?


I saw all of what you said but like I said in this type of position you need concrete...

and after a quick check the discovered check will win material immediately if you play f3 immediately after q-a3....

eg 1.f3 h4!2. q-h6 and n-f6+ picks up the bishop

Originally posted by erikido
and after a quick check the discovered check will win material immediately if you play f3 immediately after q-a3....

eg 1.f3 h4!2. q-h6 and n-f6+ picks up the bishop

There is no discovered check after Qa3.

Besides I said ...f3 once you castle.

Like this.

1...Bg4 2.Qb3 Kh8 3.Qa3 Qh5


4.0-0 f3 5.g3 Qh3 6.Ne3 Ba6! And now what does white do? He resigns.

5.Ne3 Ba6! Again what does white have if 6.Nxg4 then 6...Qxg4 theatening mate and the bishop on e4. If 7.Bxf3 then 7...Rxf3 8.resigns.

5.Bxf3 Bxf3 6.gxf3 Qxf3 if 7.c4 then 7...Qg4+ 8.Qg3 Qxc4 9.Ne3 Qc6 followed soon by ...Ba6 theatening to win the queen. So maybe 10.f3 Ba6 11.Ng4 Bf4 12.Qf2 Rg8! Winning the knight if 8.Kh1 then 8...Rf3 9.Qa5 Rf8 10.Qd2 Qe4! 11.Kg1 Ba6! 12.Ne3? Rg8+ game over 12.Qxa6 Rg8+ 13.Kh1 Rxf2#

So no castling kingside.

4.Qxh6 Qh4 5.Qxb5 Rb8 6.Qa4 Rxb2 and the house comes crumbling down. So no queen snatching.

This is why I'm fear 2.Qd3 3.a4 more than 2.Qb3

This is also without a board since I am out and about at the moment so errors are probably there. Lots of them I'd bet. BUT I think that the biggest improvements will come for black.

Originally posted by tomtom232
There is no discovered check after Qa3.

Besides I said ...f3 once you castle.

Like this.

1...Bg4 2.Qb3 Kh8 3.Qa3 Qh5


4.0-0 f3 5.g3 Qh3 6.Ne3 Ba6! And now what does white do? He resigns.

5.Ne3 Ba6! Again what does white have if 6.Nxg4 then 6...Qxg4 theatening mate and the bishop on e4. If 7.Bxf3 then 7...Rxf3 8.resigns.

5.Bxf3 Bxf3 6.g ...[text shortened]... ly there. Lots of them I'd bet. BUT I think that the biggest improvements will come for black.

that should have read q-b3...After q-b3 white does have an advantage...I will show you my analysis at a later time.

wow...I am intrigued. After looking over it again after q-b3 I thought n-b4 or c7 might give white the advantage but black does have some resources down the line which I had not considered(which give equality )

Originally posted by erikido
that should have read q-b3...After q-b3 white does have an advantage...I will show you my analysis at a later time.

Here are some concrete lines.

1...Bg4 2.Qb3 Kh8 3.Qa3(3.h4 Qh5 4.Nb4 Be2! Qd5 f3 g3 Bc4-+) 3...Qh5 4.Qxa6 f3! 5.g3 Bf5! 6.Bb1(6.Bxf5 Qxf5 7.Qxb5 Rb8 8.Qc4! Rxb2 9.0-0 Qh3 10.Ne3 h5 11.a4 Bh6 12.Qh4 Qxh4 13.hxg4 Bxe3 14.fxe3 e4! -+) Bh6! -+


A brief look through the ideas.

1...Bg4 like I already said to pile up pressure on f3 which is a critical square in this position(I would like to take the time here to tell macpo that the squares a piece can control are what determine its value. With that in mind it shouldn't be impossible to determine the value of a piece in any given position)

2.Qb3 I would guess this is to move to the a3 square while gaining tempo by threatening the discovered check.

2...Kh8 this is to avoid the immediate discovered check and to open the g8 square for a possible ...Rg8 later on. It is also a safer square for the king.

3.Qa3 the planned move(again assuming this is erikido's idea here) it from here the queen not only hits the d and a pawns but it also can be moved to a5 square later.

(3.h4 gain tempo on the queen and prevent any ...Qh3 moves after g3 making it so that the knight isn't needed to guard g2 immediately.

3...Qh5 obvious move. Gets out of the theatened capture and piles more pressure on f3.

To be continued

Originally posted by erikido
wow...I am intrigued. After looking over it again after q-b3 I thought n-b4 or c7 might give white the advantage but black does have some resources down the line which I had not considered(which give equality )

for tom tom....

Originally posted by erikido
for tom tom....

That analysis is for Macpo also. Plus you said equality. I believe that after Qb3 black has good winning chances.

Edit: and I would still like to see your analysis to compare it with mine so I can see where I possible went wrong if I did(good chance of that) and to maybe see if you found a forced draw for either side(already found one for black. ...Rff2 pretty much any time after ...Rxb2.

Originally posted by tomtom232
That analysis is for Macpo also. Plus you said equality. I believe that after Qb3 black has good winning chances.

Edit: and I would still like to see your analysis to compare it with mine so I can see where I possible went wrong if I did(good chance of that) and to maybe see if you found a forced draw for either side(already found one for black. ...Rff2 pretty much any time after ...Rxb2.

I will have to get back to you on that one(and yes I did find what seemed to be a forced draw for black-when black plays n-c4 as I recall. But, the first time I found a winning line for white and then when I went back well it all looked different lol)