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  1. 25 Sep '13 10:49


    what if White had played 30. Rc3-a3?
  2. 25 Sep '13 12:14 / 3 edits
    I think the battle was lost before then around move 22, white allowing the proliferation of pawns on the queenside was deadly 30.Ra3 Qb4? Great to see a fellow Colle exponent though! so sad that he could not press home his opening advantage though
  3. Standard member hedonist
    peacedog's keeper
    25 Sep '13 14:41
    This opening play reminded me of a typical example game at the start of a 'Play the Colle' book.

    4. ... Bb4 just gave white an extra move and 9. ... c4 gives white his dream Colle set-up. If he had played a timely Ne5 then it was virtually game over without any blood spilt.
  4. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    25 Sep '13 14:52 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by robbebop
    [pgn][Event "Open invite"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"] [Date "2013.09.10"] [EndDate "2013.09.24"] [Round "?"] [White "celtictiger"] [Black "robbebop"] [WhiteRating "1412"] [BlackRating "1540"] [WhiteElo "1412"] [BlackElo "1540"] [Result "0-1"] [GameId "10214500"] 1. d4 Ng8f6 2. Ng1f3 e6 3. e3 d5 4. Bf1d3 Bf8b4 5. c3 Bb4a5 6. O-O O-O 7. Qd1e2 Nb8d7 8 ...[text shortened]... Ne1c2 Qa3b3 37. Nc2a1 bxa1=Q 38. Rb1xa1 Qb3xd1 0-1[/pgn]

    what if White had played 30. Rc3-a3?


    White has an interesting way to make a draw from here.

    Ne4 ..dxe4 Qxe4 ..Rb8 Qxh7+ ..Kf8 Bxh6 ..gxh6 Qxh6+ ..Ke7 (forced or it's mate after Bh7+ etc..) Qg5+ and there is a threefold repetition that black dare not avoid..
  5. 25 Sep '13 15:02
    Originally posted by hedonist
    This opening play reminded me of a typical example game at the start of a 'Play the Colle' book.

    4. ... Bb4 just gave white an extra move and 9. ... c4 gives white his dream Colle set-up. If he had played a timely Ne5 then it was virtually game over without any blood spilt.
    Colle rules - Capablanca played it loads of times and won many great victories with it.
  6. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Sep '13 15:27
    4...Bb4 Ugh - it will end up on b6. Why not just put it on the natural square d6? Or even e7.
    9...c4? Should have been ...de4 - white must not be allowed a pawn on e5.
    11.e5 Clearly, black did not ask himself 'where does my N go if he plays this?' And notice how silly his B looks on a5. Black would be much happier with it on f8 defending the K.
    13.Qe3 Why? White should be doing something more aggressive, like moving an N out of the way to play f4 or Bxh6.
    13...b5 No - the K should be defended first. Luckily for black, white's attack has been clumsy so far. In particular, the Nd2 is in the way of things.
    17...b4 should be ...Ng6. Solidify the defense before white gets his pieces organized.
    21...Rb8 The course of the game turns; white has squandered his attacking chances while black gets counterplay on the b-file and has a passed pawn.
    22.Bxb4?? Giving the opp connected passers is suicide.
    27...b3? Why give up the c3 pawn? Just play ...Qxa5.
    30.Bc2 Black could try 30.Ra3 c3 31.Ne1 Rc7 32.Nc2, but it still looks lost.
    32...Qa3 Faster is 32...Qc1+ 33.Kh2 c3.
  7. 25 Sep '13 17:30
    Originally posted by robbebop
    [pgn][Event "Open invite"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"] [Date "2013.09.10"] [EndDate "2013.09.24"] [Round "?"] [White "celtictiger"] [Black "robbebop"] [WhiteRating "1412"] [BlackRating "1540"] [WhiteElo "1412"] [BlackElo "1540"] [Result "0-1"] [GameId "10214500"] 1. d4 Ng8f6 2. Ng1f3 e6 3. e3 d5 4. Bf1d3 Bf8b4 5. c3 Bb4a5 6. O-O O-O 7. Qd1e2 Nb8d7 8 ...[text shortened]... Ne1c2 Qa3b3 37. Nc2a1 bxa1=Q 38. Rb1xa1 Qb3xd1 0-1[/pgn]

    what if White had played 30. Rc3-a3?
    It seems to me that on move 13 white has a very rare opportunity. Moving backwards, especially moving a piece backwards to its original square, is usually considered a bad move but in this instance it seems that 13.Nb1 is an elegant solution to whites problems.
  8. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Sep '13 19:06
    Originally posted by robbebop
    [pgn][Event "Open invite"] [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"] [Date "2013.09.10"] [EndDate "2013.09.24"] [Round "?"] [White "celtictiger"] [Black "robbebop"] [WhiteRating "1412"] [BlackRating "1540"] [WhiteElo "1412"] [BlackElo "1540"] [Result "0-1"] [GameId "10214500"] 1. d4 Ng8f6 2. Ng1f3 e6 3. e3 d5 4. Bf1d3 Bf8b4 5. c3 Bb4a5 6. O-O O-O 7. Qd1e2 Nb8d7 8 ...[text shortened]... Ne1c2 Qa3b3 37. Nc2a1 bxa1=Q 38. Rb1xa1 Qb3xd1 0-1[/pgn]

    what if White had played 30. Rc3-a3?
    If 30. Rc3-a3, then Rb8-b4 looks good.

    The Instructor
  9. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Sep '13 19:29
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    4...Bb4 Ugh - it will end up on b6. Why not just put it on the natural square d6? Or even e7.
    9...c4? Should have been ...de4 - white must not be allowed a pawn on e5.
    11.e5 Clearly, black did not ask himself 'where does my N go if he plays this?' And notice how silly his B looks on a5. Black would be much happier with it on f8 defending the K.
    13.Qe3 ...[text shortened]... y 30.Ra3 c3 31.Ne1 Rc7 32.Nc2, but it still looks lost.
    32...Qa3 Faster is 32...Qc1+ 33.Kh2 c3.
    Also, I like 17.a3, slowing down black's ...b4 break a bit.
  10. 25 Sep '13 20:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Also, I like 17.a3, slowing down black's ...b4 break a bit.
    I don't. I try to avoid making pawn moves on the side my opponent is attacking, it may stop immediate threats but tends to allow the enemy more weakness to bite.

    White still has Nb1 in his arsenal if black plays ...b4, that knight is doing worse than nothing where it is sitting and I'm sure it wants to be useful in some measure.
  11. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Sep '13 20:33
    Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
    I don't. I try to avoid making pawn moves on the side my opponent is attacking, it may stop immediate threats but tends to allow the enemy more weakness to bite.

    White still has Nb1 in his arsenal if black plays ...b4, that knight is doing worse than nothing where it is sitting and I'm sure it wants to be useful in some measure.
    Bite with what? Black has the one Bishop over there and that's it.

    The Nd2 is in the way, sure; but it might eventually be useful on the Kside via Nf1-g3 or even Nf3 if the other N moves. I don't like Nb1 because it shuts the Ra1 in.
  12. 25 Sep '13 20:55
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Bite with what? Black has the one Bishop over there and that's it.

    The Nd2 is in the way, sure; but it might eventually be useful on the Kside via Nf1-g3 or even Nf3 if the other N moves. I don't like Nb1 because it shuts the Ra1 in.
    How does it shut the rook in anymore than it already happens to be shut? The a file is as likely a candidate to open in the next few moves as any other file so where do you propose to move the rook to increase his mobility? b1?

    You're plan with Re1 (rook wants to be on f file, mind you), Nf1, Ng3 then to get the rook out Bd2 takes just as many moves as Nb1, Bd2, Na3.

    I also doubt the Knight will be much effect in the kingside attack any time soon as whites pieces are already in a traffic jam, adding another piece can hardly be an efficient use of time.
  13. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Sep '13 20:59
    Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
    How does it shut the rook in anymore than it already happens to be shut? The a file is as likely a candidate to open in the next few moves as any other file so where do you propose to move the rook to increase his mobility? b1?

    You're plan with Re1 (rook wants to be on f file, mind you), Nf1, Ng3 then to get the rook out Bd2 takes just as many moves ...[text shortened]... ieces are already in a traffic jam, adding another piece can hardly be an efficient use of time.
    What insightful questions. Especially the first one.

    When a piece has one legal move and you take even that away, it's shut in more. Duh.

    White can afford a few moves to coordinate because black's Queenside play is also going slowly.
  14. 25 Sep '13 21:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    What insightful questions. Especially the first one.

    When a piece has one legal move and you take even that away, it's shut in more. Duh.

    White can afford a few moves to coordinate because black's Queenside play is also going slowly.
    When a piece has one legal move and you take even that away, it's shut in more. Duh.

    Woah! One square! Excuse me now the game is lost because a rook that only had one useless square to move to it now has no useless square to move to! And you still didn't answer where you would place that rook if Nb1 wasn't played.

    White can afford a few moves to coordinate because black's Queenside play is also going slowly

    A few moves to coordinate? If we placed the pieces on the squares you want them with the Ng3, Re1, pa3 white would barely be better than he is now and thats without black making ANY moves. Whites BEST option, a kingside pawn storm, is now competely unachievable because instead of one knight in the way we now have TWO. Congrats SwissGambit! The rook and the bishop now have one legal move apiece! That TOTALLY makes up for the complete immobility of the kingside pawns and 4 wasted moves!

    See, we can both be sarcastic.

    "White still has Nb1 in his arsenal in case black plays b4" I don't think that Nb1 is correct in the position on move 17, it is not a prophylactic move. I would play 17. g4 Ne7 (...Nh4 would end the argument as this would solve the d2 knight's dilemma. White would play Kh2 then Nxh4 and Nf3 or black initiates the exchange which solves the problem either way) 18.Qg3 and now if 18...b4 I would play 19.Nb1 which makes black look silly because he is practically forced to play 19...bxc3 or 19...b3 which solves knight and the rook respectively.
  15. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Sep '13 21:54
    Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
    [b]When a piece has one legal move and you take even that away, it's shut in more. Duh.

    Woah! One square! Excuse me now the game is lost because a rook that only had one useless square to move to it now has no useless square to move to! And you still didn't answer where you would place that rook if Nb1 wasn't played.

    White can afford a few ...[text shortened]... s practically forced to play 19...bxc3 or 19...b3 which solves knight and the rook respectively.
    Why do you keep saying I want white to play Re1? Did I ever say white should play Re1? No. There are other squares it can go to besides that one.

    As for Ra1, it is too soon to pick a square. Try to think long term here. Having the option of swinging it to Kside later can only help. That's why most experienced players are big on this whole 'development' thingy. You know, when you move pieces to better squares than where they are at the game's start.