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  1. 07 Oct '06 03:28 / 1 edit
    Its interesting... I had to sac a rook for 2 pawns.Game 2441461

    Please comment on the endgame, and not the middlegame (both sides made blunders). I used the analyze feature during the game and every line I analyzed at best ended in a draw. Did I miss something here?
  2. Standard member Spacetime
    Not material
    07 Oct '06 04:15
    I think one problem may have been 43...Rg6+ makes it harder to win. The reason is his king gets to cross over to the other side of the board and try to help his pawns push over there and your king can get over there in time.

    Maybe 43...Rxh7 instead is easier to win. Now his king can't cross the e-file (you want to keep it this way). 44.Rxh7+ Kxh7 45.f5 Re2 46.a4 Rxh2.

    The difference now is your king is close enough to his passer. You want to get your king in front of his passed pawn. In the other situation you created this was impossible which made the game require much more precision.

    47.f6 Kg8 and now black really can't get anymore counterplay with passed pawns.

    I think one lesson here is use your rook to keep his king out of the area where he can create passed pawns you can't get your king in front of.
  3. 07 Oct '06 04:19
    Originally posted by chesskid001
    Its interesting... I had to sac a rook for 2 pawns.Game 2441461

    Please comment on the endgame, and not the middlegame (both sides made blunders). I used the analyze feature during the game and every line I analyzed at best ended in a draw. Did I miss something here?
    chesskid, I had a quick look at the game. Yes, you are correct... too many blunders by both sides in the middle game. But after move 46, black still had a rook. I think it was still possible to win at that stage. The variation could be endless, but I think all you needed to do was to maintain your rook on that rank and support it with your king. White had more pawns, but they are not connected and shouldn't be a problem for black. By by black maintaining its rook on that rank, white's king can't penetrate black's position, at least not so soon. White's h pawn shouldn't be a problem either. Try it out and see if you can arrive at a different ending.
  4. 07 Oct '06 04:32
    Actually, an earlier simplification would have been possible I think.

    39. ... Rxh7+
    40. Kg4(forced) Qxe6+
    41. Qxe6 Rxe6

    And then it's up to white if he wanted to trade the h rooks. The difference in this variation is that black preserves his b pawn. Too many possibilities, don't know how white would have played. But just an idea worth investigating. Hope it will help.
  5. 07 Oct '06 04:36
    Originally posted by chesskid001
    Its interesting... I had to sac a rook for 2 pawns.Game 2441461

    Please comment on the endgame, and not the middlegame (both sides made blunders). I used the analyze feature during the game and every line I analyzed at best ended in a draw. Did I miss something here?
    I think move 39 was a decisive one since it gave white the posible draw, instead of 39..... Re8*re6, the move I consider best is 39..... Rh8*h7+ 40.Kg4 Q*re6+ 41. Q*Q R*Q


    I also think that in move 47 you lost a time, the best one to my knowledge was to capture the pawn on a2 and then menace to capture on a4.

    This endgame was a win for black I think.
  6. 07 Oct '06 06:30
    Instead of 40....... Qf7 does
    40..... Re7
    41Qg2+ Kf8
    41Qa8+ Re8 help?

    with the white king about to be gobbled up?
  7. 07 Oct '06 06:38
    Originally posted by chesskid001
    .... I analyzed at best ended in a draw. Did I miss something here?
    If I'm not mistaken, a King+pawn vs King with the pawn at the edge is a forced draw (w/o mistake from your opponent), is it not?
  8. 07 Oct '06 10:50
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    Where is endgame?
    The way I see it, there is no clear line to draw where exactly an endgame starts. But in this particular game, I'd say the critical point would be around move 46. On that move, had black played Kg7 instead of Rg2, black would have probably won the game.
  9. 10 Oct '06 00:48
    this is a draw if black knows how to play this particular king + pawn endgame. its simple for a-file pawns and h-file pawns. if the king can get to the corner before the pawn, then its a draw.
  10. 10 Oct '06 05:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by chesskid001
    Its interesting... I had to sac a rook for 2 pawns.Game 2441461

    Please comment on the endgame, and not the middlegame (both sides made blunders). I used the analyze feature during the game and every line I analyzed at best ended in a draw. Did I miss something here?
    I didn't spend too long on this, so it's almost certain (never mind possible) that I have missed something earlier in the endgame, but for me your move 47 was a huge blunder. It stood out when i played through the game as obvioulsy it lost time due to your change of mind. If you had taken the a2 pawn (as you originally planned) you would have had a passed pawn, if white tries to go after that pawn with the king then you simply occupy the b file with your rook, if he tries to advance his own pawn you let him do so but advance your own a pawn beyond the reach of his king, THEN (and only then) sacrifice the rook to stop him queening. But like I said there will be something I missed earlier too, but taking the a2 pawn on move 47 wins the game
  11. 10 Oct '06 07:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    What's your gameplan here, with Kg7?
    Well, in my opinion (but of course I don't claim to be a chess expert), Kg7 supports the rook on 6th rank, hence preventing the enemy's king from penetrating beyond that rank. Then h4 would not have really been a threat, it can go no further than the 5th rank (the rook guards the 6th rank supported by the king). The other white pawns are all isolated. Therefore, it follows that the only way white might be able to do something is to try to move his king to the queenside with his king, but you can try it out, I don't think he has time for that even.
  12. 10 Oct '06 08:55
    Hey 7ate9, is it possible to set up the position from move 46, and then I play black, you white. Just to show what would happen. No need to be rated.... just out of curiosity and for learning purposes only. Is there such a feature on here?
  13. 10 Oct '06 09:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ckoh1965
    Hey 7ate9, is it possible to set up the position from move 46, and then I play black, you white. Just to show what would happen. No need to be rated.... just out of curiosity and for learning purposes only. Is there such a feature on here?
    White is in a LOST position, all black has to do to win is avoid blundering, I don't think anyone (or any computer) in the world let alone this site, could win with white if black does not blunder
  14. 10 Oct '06 10:32
    Originally posted by stevetodd
    White is in a LOST position, all black has to do to win is avoid blundering, I don't think anyone (or any computer) in the world let alone this site, could win with white if black does not blunder
    Let me explain. The actual game ended in a draw, and chesskid asked us all if it is winnable. I gave my opinion that black should win. But I sensed some doubt in 7ate9. So I suggested that we play the same game from move 46. That is all. I thought it would be fun to try it out and exchange opinions.
  15. 10 Oct '06 11:13
    Originally posted by ckoh1965
    Let me explain. The actual game ended in a draw, and chesskid asked us all if it is winnable. I gave my opinion that black should win. But I sensed some doubt in 7ate9. So I suggested that we play the same game from move 46. That is all. I thought it would be fun to try it out and exchange opinions.
    I know that, but you posted after my first posting where I had already answered chesskid's question (look above) when I told him he had a won game, but blundered on move (was it 47 I forget now) when RxA2 wins or were you being sarcastic (I'm never sure on here)